New Features & New Troops - Feedback & Discussion

  • It's certainly an interesting topic to discuss, but not in this thread.

    So start a thread. Id like to discuss this one. :)

    Bo knows! Mace are like bees... a few of them are harmless but a swarm will kill you.
    Blah blah blah.... been playing since US started then quit that domain.
    Im morbid/pika/thrawn/noob juice/ewoks
    etc....

    I've played on all the English speaking servers many many times along with a few others I never understood a single IGM sent to me. I'm done now.

  • What suits the Huns better than some speed boost for their riders? T
    he Huns’ hero speed is increased by +3 while traveling with cavalry units only.


    You can discuss these new troops
    HERE

    This is how ability seems to work, but I'm confused. Mounted Hun hero (t1 horse) travels at 14. The steppe travels at 16. Your wording is confusing in that it either means 1) The hero causes the horse it accompanies to travel +3 faster (16>19 in this case) or 2) The hero may go to 17 speed when accompanied by a cavalry troop.


    But the below pictures suggest the hero will always be slowed by the speed of the cav (16 in this case), nullifying its supposed advantage. Some clarification of how this ability works or is supposed to work would be appreciated.








    ..And that is the Final Word.

    Post was edited 2 times, last by Final Word ().

  • A quote below was brought to my attention from the blog


    Quote

    Their empire saw a decline after its hay day and became a Roman providence under Cleopatra, so we have a built in – if uneasy – relationship between the Egyptians and our classic tribe.

    Question: What are built-in relationship between Egyptians and Romans?

  • I see the posts about the speed and my quote. That is what was given to me to post.


    I will ask tomorrow for a clarification and post here so we can get the right info.


    Stay tuned....

  • Enti, I will answer to you without quoting or we will go farther away from the topic I'm trying to discuss.


    I'm not interested in theoretical defensive account. My duals and myself have certain playing style and we are trying to pick a tribe that will suit us best. There are so many voices saying that Egyptians are the ultimate tribe for defensive account. We picked Gauls previously so I only compare to Gauls (I only mentioned paladins because you set them as an example of raiding account,forget it). Note, we need not just defensive power, but holistic assessment.


    Start. No doubt Egyptians have advantage because of hero production, for pure simming start. We have never done simming start, I don't see an advantage here for our account. Note, that as much as we all dismiss Gauls special abilities, extra cranny space and trappers matter at the start. Our Gauls account is immune to incoming raids.
    Defense. Yes, Egyptians produce more power per resource. However, the same power requires almost 2x crop to feed. Just a few days sitting in a village and the total cost (build and upkeep) shifts toward Gauls. Speed of training does not matter that much for defensive account - just set another village.
    Fast defense. Gauls are just better, I guess we agree on it.
    Raiding. You will not be able to convince me that we can raid the same amount with Egyptians as with Gauls, assuming same effort. The only question is if extra crop will overcome extra raiding abilities, especially if effort is taken into account. I'm not ready to answer this. Ability to use raiding squad as a ghost we find useful and fun, regardless what you think about it.
    Merchants. Egyptians are the same speed as Romans, much slow than Gauls. I have vivid memories of whining chat at the start of ROA and straggles to bring crop to defensive calls. Not sure how much it will change with smaller map but definitely matter for regional map set up.
    Last but not least - nobody will take slaves as standing defense because of feeding. And if there is a starvation they are set to die first as likely will be biggest packs.


    I hope that helps better understand my logic.

  • I understand your logic. And it is even sound. Hell, you can play whichever tribe you want. What you don't seem to understand is that your account is not the center of the universe. Only because the Egyptian does not fit your playing style (or so you think) does not make Gauls better in general.



    There are more than enough defensive accounts who don't raid. I hope you believe me at least that, they are even more frequent than defensive accounts who do.



    And now please don't compare Egyptians so your personal playing style which is evidently different than most of the defenders. First you never play your account alone. Did you even for a second try to imagine how Egyptians impact those accounts? What do you think how many accounts are played by a single individual, in 1x speed servers.. Secondly you are sometimes in the robbers of the week with you account, you used this information/fact to argue against Egyptians. It is so unbelievable self centered it hurts. You know fully well that 99,99% of all defenders do not end up there. Doesn't matter for you, you used it in your argument.
    It's as if you just want to brag instead of discussion it for real.


    I can only repeat myself:
    The Egyptian's (def) foot-troops are slightly better and far far more versatile than the Gauls.
    The Egyptian's (def) mounted-troops are slightly worse (really, just a tiny bit) then the druids but again, more versatile.
    => A huuuge advantage is that you can raid with the real defensive units without having to build an entirely new class of units to raid with. This is an unbelievable strength, because if you want to raid as a Gaul you have to invest in non-defensive troops. For example TT. Even if TT raid better, they a) cost a lot and b) they cost upkeep without adding to your defensive powers. Especially in 1xspeed server that's a strong argument for the Egyptian's because you can just use the already built units for raiding.


    You compared the Egyptian's special building with the trapper and better cranny. I can only hope you were joking here. Doubling your oasis bonus is in a whole other category than a trapper... I can't believe you brought it up.


    And I don't understand your argument that you "cant raid with slaves" because "2 of them die in an oasis". You yourself said 20 times in this thread already, that 2 slaves are as cheap as 1 Phalanx. Can you raid with a single Phalanx? Is it maybe unfair to compare 2 slaves with 2 other units? Since you can easily buy 4 slaves for the same price? Maybe comparing 4 slaves with 2 phalanx would make more sense?


    So this whole raiding argument is no argument at all, so you can't negate the "hero produces twice as many resources from the first second" with it. That scales.. that means you can build your resource-tiles earlier and that way you have a higher production earlier wich means you have even more resources available than those "twice as many" from the hero.


    And even if you want to use only one single archetype (your way of playing a defensive account, with multiple people who are willing to raid, huge gold investment, good capital..) as the only point of comparison:
    You still benefit from the special building a lot. If you have your crop fields built to 19 on your current server, that means you get 140.000 crop additionally each hour. That's 23,5 mio each week. Without having to feed your raiding-party!
    You might be able to raid more, with a lot of effort and troops, but this building does not require neither. You just build it and get soooo many additional resources. Why can't you admit it? I don't understand. Compare this additional income to gauls/romans/teutons and tell me why the Egyptians deserve this huge boost, in which regards are they so weak that this huge bonus is justified.

  • Hope this is a bug, otherwise it's pretty clear not much consideration went into the bonus.. Considering hero would never be able to gain more than 2 speed if you have gelding on, and the bonus would be completely void after picking up spurs/faster horse.

  • Worth to be mentioned:
    I was the 10.000th :D



    To be on topic: the Huns are great to farm with, I must say. But we have to be carefull about counter attacks, due the lack of defense.

    Antiek exemplaar

    NLX: Team Rocket, Zinderin, V-Vogels (Mr. De Uil)

    COMX: N&C (Thomas de Trein)
    RoA COM: Twelve Monkeys (Harambe)

  • Maybe in the mid game or late game, we'll have more counter attacks on the Huns. It could be an evolution and players should fix defensive troops to avoid counter attacks.


    But for the early game, the Hun T1 has more defensive strength than the Germain T1. So you can't attempt a counter attack with your hero if a Hun raider comes to your village. For those who are afraid of counter attacks with Germans raiders on the start, that's perfect.

    TS3.FR: [MEK]

  • Hope this is a bug, otherwise it's pretty clear not much consideration went into the bonus.. Considering hero would never be able to gain more than 2 speed if you have gelding on, and the bonus would be completely void after picking up spurs/faster horse.

    With Spotter there is +3 :D

  • My raid-a-bunch Hun account is being outproduced by the sit-and-sim-up Egyptian account with the resource production bonus for the hero. It's a pretty powerful bonus.


    They haven't directly told us what the hero bonuses are for the original 3 tribes. Anyone playing them on the server know what they are? Also, it's stated that these hero bonuses are going to be on the F&S Birthday Server. It's possible these hero bonuses won't stay.

    • Roman tribe:
      The hero skill “strength” increases by 100 points instead of 80 points for each skill point added.
    • Gaul tribe:
      +5 Speed if mounted
    • Teuton tribe:
      20 % “Cranny dip” (also known as “Plunder bonus”) for all units attacking with the hero.

    ..And that is the Final Word.

  • The roman skill seems good for early-game raiders. That strength bonus will help the hero survive longer and not need as many revives.


    Gaul bonus is almost completely worthless. Aside from faster adventures, the extra speed isn't needed. They should probably move away from the whole "Gaul units are faster" thing unless they give another boost to the whole tribe.


    Similarly, they're really trying to re-push the whole Teuton plunder bonus without actually giving them a plunder bonus. I don't see why they don't just give them that back as well.


    In terms of hero bonus power. I'd say we have Egyptians > Romans/Teutons > Gaul/Hun.

  • more like Egyptians>>>Roman/Teut>Gaul>Hun (until they fix it)

    ..And that is the Final Word.

  • I really don't want to be disrespectful but that statement made my eyes bleed when I read it.

    I feel obligated to explain that useless, snarky comments don't contribute to a discussion. Why not explain why you don't agree with it?


    We know the Egyptian hero bonus to resources makes for an exceptionally fast rush to a second village. You've stated, multiple times at that, how important it is getting the early set-up. I think we can all agree that the Egyptian bonus is the best.


    Next comes the Roman bonus that allows for faster hero leveling (due to the hero being stronger overall) and the Teuton bonus to grant the chance to plunder resources other tribes can't get. Both of these may be slower than the Egyptians, but also help in the early game.


    Gaul and Hun bonuses both seem useless. The Gaul bonus looks like it only increases the speed of the hero (and not troops with it). Aside from faster adventures, what does that give you? We've also seen that the Hun bonus only works with cavalry, and again only affects the hero. That means after you get horse and boots (around the time you start getting enough cavalry), that bonus also becomes useless.

  • You are right, sorry for being so rude. Guess I am just disappointed by TG and had to vent my frustration.
    My main point is, that your ranking list gives a totally wrong impression. In terms of actual powerlevel it should look like something like that:


    Egyptians ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- other tribes


    It's not even worth differentiating between the other tribes "specialties" because they are - compared to the Egyptians - so insignificant.


    But if you do rank them, the Teuton hero has to be last. In all my years of playing I have never ever used his ability once. And even worse, there is an item that give any hero the ability to mimic the Teutons "special skill". But as I said, nobody really uses that.


    Compare this useless plunder bonus with significantly faster settling times the Egyptian hero provides and it seems like mockery.


    By the way the second best hero bonus will be the Hun's bonus. At least if +3 speed for all horses if the hero is accompanying the army is still correct. But as I said above, even the different between Huns and Egyptians is just ridiculous. You can't even compare them that's how far they are apart.

  • I would have to disagree with the Teuton bonus being last. The reason for that is because the Gaul and Hun bonuses, in their current form, become completely and totally useless.


    The Gaul bonus is nullified once you add troops. At that point, it's like there is no bonus at all. Huns are similar. Yes, if they actually up the speed of horse units then it would be good. But from what we've seen so far, it only increases the speed of the hero. So once you get some movement items for the hero, that bonus also becomes nullified.


    The Teuton bonus does have some application. You'd be surprised with how many new players will at least make a cranny before leaving the game. When you're not busy leveling from raiding oases or going on adventures, you can use the hero to acquire resources other tribes don't have access too. Even with the early game bags, other tribes won't have as high of a plunder bonus. The bonus does fall off, but isn't really nullified.

    I understand your logic. And it is even sound. Hell, you can play whichever tribe you want. What you don't seem to understand is that your account is not the center of the universe. Only because the Egyptian does not fit your playing style (or so you think) does not make Gauls better in general.

    I think this same logic applies in this case as well. Just because you have never used the Teuton hero bonus, doesn't mean it is worthless and others don't use it.



    And yes, we can all agree that the Egyptian bonus towers over the rest of them.