New Features & New Troops - Feedback & Discussion

IronTsunami wrote:

Just because you have never used the Teuton hero bonus, doesn't mean it is worthless and others don't use it.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. You are talking about "you can use the hero to acquire resources other tribes don't have access too." - in the beginning we are talking about ridiculous small amounts and later even less.
That you think a Gaul's hero bonus is useless shows me, that you never played competitively. There are so many instances in which a Gaul hero saved the day.. or the artifact to be more precise, thinking that the stupid plunder bonus is more valuable than the extra speed... argh. Not attacking you, just pointing out the lack of experience.

But at least we agree that none of the other bonuses even comes close to the Egyptian hero bonus. That's a start!

Schneeente wrote:

Sorry, but I have to disagree. You are talking about "you can use the hero to acquire resources other tribes don't have access too." - in the beginning we are talking about ridiculous small amounts and later even less.That you think a Gaul's hero bonus is useless shows me, that you never played competitively. There are so many instances in which a Gaul hero saved the day.. or the artifact to be more precise, thinking that the stupid plunder bonus is more valuable than the extra speed... argh. Not attacking you, just pointing out the lack of experience.

But at least we agree that none of the other bonuses even comes close to the Egyptian hero bonus. That's a start!

Ah yes, moving artifacts fast would be handy. It's been a while since I've gone hard on a Wonder Race server. I've been mostly focused on the new formats we've been given the last few years. It does look like F&S will be following the RoA outline, so that will diminish that bonus for the upcoming Birthday Server. Guess that's a bit more server dependent. Now that I think about it, one could also make an argument for the speed of Gaul ghosts.

And yes, you aren't getting huge amounts with the plunder bonus. But if the people around you don't have it, then you can make sure you're getting all the resources from nearby villages while they all get nothing. Still not as useless as the Hun bonus currently seem to be. I do wonder if the Hun bonus will change and affect the horses with it. Or perhaps the bonus is there to help with what I just previously mentioned; ghosting. They obviously won't be as fast as TTs, but Steppe ghosts could be a thing. That might make it a bit better.

Schneeente wrote:

But at least we agree that none of the other bonuses even comes close to the Egyptian hero bonus. That's a start!

Egyptian Hero's bonus is amazing for the start, but very useless in the rest of the game. The Gauls extra speed is always useful, just as the Huns hero's bonus.

MCCFire wrote:

Egyptian Hero's bonus is amazing for the start, but very useless in the rest of the game. The Gauls extra speed is always useful, just as the Huns hero's bonus.

I wouldn't say it is useless for the rest of the game.. very quick res boost for newly settled villas, just send the hero there.

Or just send some ress via the marketplace to there.

MCCFire wrote:

Egyptian Hero's bonus is amazing for the start, but very useless in the rest of the game. The Gauls extra speed is always useful, just as the Huns hero's bonus.

Seriously? Are your really serious?

The bonus is amazing at the start and then it becomes useless?

Before I answer seriously, I give you the chance to retract your statement.

If those prices are correct, it is laughable: Travian :: Gebäude

Far far far far too cheap. I can't believe it. I was hoping for at least twice the costs of the HM, not significantly less. Who the heck though that this would be a good idea?

Wait... you don't even need a second Warehouse to max the Waterworks? That is incredibly cheap for what it provides.

It should have been significantly more expensive than the HM. Instead it's laughable cheap. With those costs you can even build it in random support villages to a certain level... even more value.. -.-

Schneeente wrote:

Seriously? Are your really serious?
The bonus is amazing at the start and then it becomes useless?

Before I answer seriously, I give you the chance to retract your statement.

Well.
For example when you have got like 15.000 population and no lvl 100 hero.
All my points are going to FS, %off and %def. I really don't care about the production.

1000 x 4 extra production on 15k pop. Mwa. I don't care. Really. I prefer the points on offensive strength.

Schneeente wrote:

It should have been significantly more expensive than the HM. Instead it's laughable cheap. With those costs you can even build it in random support villages to a certain level... even more value.. -.-

This is actually one of the reasons why I initially suspected Egyptians of being amazing defenders. Because they can easily double the oases of defense-producing villages with the Waterworks. So any village that grabs up an oasis that gives crop can house more defense. Which is kind of needed due to most Egyptian units being weaker and requiring shear numbers.

-.-

The Egyptian's hero advantage is having a huuuge impact during the whole game.

In the beginning you are able to settle faster, thus you are able to secure a better capital. Please calculate what huge impact a better capital has during the whole game. No way you can say "the bonus only has an effect in the beginning of the game." Definitely not.

IronTsunami wrote:

Which is kind of needed due to most Egyptian units being weaker and requiring shear numbers.

That is absolutely not true. They have a defensive unit that is a mix between Legio and Praet. The exact opposite of what you just said. Their building is far far far far far too strong. So is their hero bonus.
Their unit composition is strong but not too strong as the other 2 bonuses.

I don't even bother to answer to that Enti.
Mygod.

Glad you recognized it yourself. "Egyptian hero bonus useless in the rest of the game" ... brutal statement

Schneeente wrote:

By the way the second best hero bonus will be the Hun's bonus. At least if +3 speed for all horses if the hero is accompanying the army is still correct. But as I said above, even the different between Huns and Egyptians is just ridiculous. You can't even compare them that's how far they are apart.

Not correct so far. And not a word from TG if it's bugged or not.

Schneeente wrote:

Glad you recognized it yourself. "Egyptian hero bonus useless in the rest of the game" ... brutal statement

Ehh, he was very clearly talking about the double res bonus being useless later on in the game. The hero bonus in itself. And not the consequences of faster settling. Mixing the two to look smart.. Doesn't actually make you look smart.

It's not particularly smart to separate the bonus and its effect in the first place. Thinking you can look at the one thing without taking into account the other makes you look pretty.. well.. uninformed to say it politely.

Schneeente wrote:

It's not particularly smart to separate the bonus and its effect in the first place. Thinking you can look at the one thing without taking into account the other makes you look pretty.. well.. uninformed to say it politely.

I wasn't commenting on whether or not both should be looked at. I was just pointing out you set up a straw man, which is a fallacy. Which means that you're arguing against a point he never made. So proclaiming yourself winner of the arguement as you did is... "uninformed".

I would like to add a comment about the Egyptians.

Their ability to double the oasis bonus in every village where they add the new building, is easy to be exploited to abuse them as parkings. And this would make the game quite unbalanced...

Think about the russians , if their tech accounts could keep 2x the troops...

My suggestion would be :
if the building is present, if there are reinforced troops belonging to another player, if those troops are OFF (as defined off by TG), they should simply consume double.
This would negate an exploitation of this bonus.

Why don't expend your idea at gauls, roman, teuts, huns too ?

I think than bonus on egyptian héros is too strong too..

I think schneeente is right with is argument. if u want compare héros bonus, you can't separe the start and the late.
If u have a good start, u have a best late. that's obvious. So the égyptian bonus is usefull because with him u have a best late than whitout.
( because of the impact of the egyptian bonus before)

but i understand what u want say. u say in late, we seem account, if u have to chose u prefer gauls.

MCCFire wrote:

Well.For example when you have got like 15.000 population and no lvl 100 hero.
All my points are going to FS, %off and %def. I really don't care about the production.

1000 x 4 extra production on 15k pop. Mwa. I don't care. Really. I prefer the points on offensive strength.

I'm not okay with you.
if u have a egyptian héros with 100 point in late, u have 1200 bonus on every ress. That's near a village more.. It's still verry effective for a defensive player.. it's near an half village bonus.. Egyptian will be defensive player. The bonus ress and the %def will be up first. You just put a minimum in Fighting strength for adventure.. If u are a defensive player and want crash your little offensive troops but your héros is not lvl 100. just Buy 2x Book of Wisdom .. No cost in late.

1200x4 x24 (hours) x7 (days) = 806.400 ress in a week.. it's like 2560 pharanx or 5376 slave militia more just because u have put your héros point in production..

in late, the difference is between héros production if of 600 ress per hour x4 . It's like the difference between have 25% bonus active on a village or not.. it's 403.200 ress in more every week.
This bonus is huuge in start and still good in late on my opinion.

Don't bother talking to him. It's a waste of time.