Hammer Building

  • No you can't have a table :p

    It doesn't work that way; you just have to start asap ;)

    Lazy girl!


    and Commander - sorry I should have said - I meant for speed.

    Im not looking for how many I SHOULD have - Im looking for how many CAN be built in a specified amount of time


  • I honestly read the guide title as 'Hamster Building.'

    I think I should have gone to Spec-savers.!

  • I think you should add in what constitutes different levels of hammers i.e. in wheat consumption and troop numbers like:

    small hammer
    medium hammer
    large hammer
    massive hammer

    That'd be good.
    Because I've just started building my first ever hammer (I'm a new player) and I don't have a clue how much wheat I'm going to need, and how big to make it.

    Other than that, quite a good guide.

  • Sorry to be negative, but I do not think you can apply this to slow servers. On a slow server the limiting factor is not biuld time but wheat, you often are forced to make which unit gives the best off per wheat (with cats on 24/7 as a given), it is simply not easy or fair to find players to garage shedloads of troops for you for long periods of time. Axes give 60 per wheat, TK's 50 per wheat, so once feeding it becomes a nightmare, then as a tuet you just do Axes and Cats.

  • Really good guide

    Couple of points - already covered perhaps?

    (1) the 24 hours when you send the hammer is critical - I cannot understate the importance of you holding the haste artifact when you launch as ths gives you a chance of landing before the retaliation - just be careful when you transfer it as an enemy will be watching for this

    (2) 10k is the minimum catas and you should be able to hit 15-16k. Less than 10k and you have a nice hammer but not a WW killer

    (3) I would always put some rams in to my cata hammer just in case you have to leave 40-50 minutes gap between rammer and hammer ie because you are dodging incoming on your hammer village

    (4) always be ready to surrender your capital when the enemy try and chief your hammer village

    The perfect size for a hammer is just big enough to do the job of knocking an enemy out of the race - be ready to send it earlier than planned as you have to balance defence build up against your own troop build up

    Also sometimes you want the enemy to defend when you attack so do not always fake. On server 3 we deliberately sent a detectable rammer and hammer at the largest WW knowing it would draw in defence from the other two WWs - this allowed the other two WWs to be zeroed whilst the main attack did enough to see TC surrender honourably. (One week later we zeroed the main WW but that was becoz we still had hammers left and players wanted to be able to use them)

    Edit: re analyst's post. I am not sure. You should be able to get up to 300-400k wheat per hour on a slow server which is enough to build a 250k-350k hammer. Wheat was only a problem for my last hammer in the 23 hours it took to get to the target (fortunately I had a great sitter). But I remained happily in positive wheat the whole server up to that point

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Sleeping Dragon ().

  • OK just added my wheat. I have a highly wheat centred account, rank 93 - 26 villages.

    I have;
    8 x 15c including a 125% oasis cap
    7 x 9c
    9 x 7c
    2 x 6c (1 as there was no 7c near the wheat oasis, the other as WW feeder)

    I have added all the wheat from the villages and it totals 140K, and from that you have to deduct the pop of the biuldings. I cannot see how you would get to 400k.

  • From memory, you're not a gold user, the analyst - so is one of you including the 25% wheat and the other not?

    I tended to run out of wheat space in account at around 150k-200k

    There are now also the added quirks of artefacts. There are also ways to store big armies without weakening the other account(s) - for example,

    • storing with a holder of a diet art. and sending wheat/resources to cover the cheaper rations
    • swapping wwk troops for static defence - i.e. the defender stores bits of the wwk, your store some of their defence
    • storing with players high in wheat that don't use gold/granaries overflowing (I was incredibly *lucky* to take advantage of this on s2; there was a pre-end game incident where an enemy gb/gs was over chiefed and one army ran into another - so the two/three players involved had more wheat than expected and were very kind to offer to garage)
    • raid lots

    It never feels straightforward to somehow manage to keep growing villages, army and feed it but players tend to find a balance of what works for them.

    Overusing the haste arte trick would worry me - you still have to wait for the artefact to activate before sending and that's an extra 24 hours notice. The alternative is to regularly fake so they don't know when wwk is being launched, or hide so well on the server no one expects a big army ;) But it all depends on the state of the server at any given point.

    While for slow servers axe >> mace because of wheat consumption; if push came to shove it's the infantry troops that I'd stop building not the cav tbh. If I wanted to play catch up and had gb/gs then gb is cheaper; and siege counts as inf. A lot of wwk (using the historic looser term of >5k siege rather than > 10k siege) end up heavily balanced towards inf because of that. But of course it depends on the ww defence it hits up against :)

  • The only way you are going to get 300-400k total wheat production on a slow server is to do a Dr.Schizo
    and have 40+ 15c...in other words, hardly ever can you get that.

  • am using my start up gold for the last few weeks of the server. 7 weeks of +25% wheat, am hoping it lasts :)

    I was not aware that Cats counted as Inf, maybe a change of plan is in order, especially as getting them back from storage is quicker with the TK.

    The reason I made my 1st post still remains, on slow servers, generally (there are extreme exceptions eg blood), it is not biuld time that is the limiting factor of hammer sizes, but the wheat to feed the beast.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by The Analyst ().

  • OK small account on server 3 - only finished with 24 villages (11735 pop) so not much population per village (under 500 pop per village).

    Capital 150% bonus with 15 level 21 wheat fields with gold bonus = 171645
    1 x 150% bonus 15 cropper = 11250
    12 x 125% bonus 15 croppers = 116526
    7 x 100% bonus 15 croppers = 65625
    1 x 9 cropper x 150% bonus = 3958 as I hadnt settled oases when server ended
    2 x 6 croppers = 6000

    Total: 375000 and a bit

    Had wheat got tight I had just under 6k of population to demolish without affecting wheat production

    Started 3 weeks late so could have been more and server was only 340 days length, so I think much more than the above is easily possible. Spent a lot of gold as not much else coming out of the account than wheat. Should add I played Gaul and didnt get much raid receipts (traps arent reknowned for their raiding ability) and took an absolute age to get to village 2 as in my own alliance of 3-4 players until I had 3 villages. Basically, I had a rubbish start to server and I would expect a Teuton in a strong alliance with aggressive raiding to do much better than above

    There are two ways I suspect to build a hammer: go for lots of villages, needing culture points and thus high population and a mix of 15 croppers as well as 6 and 9 croppers to keep culture points as high as possible, in which case wheat will be a problem and wheat consumption by an army needs to be handled (the analyst's point) OR go for a wheat producing account (mine could have certainly boosted wheat production by another 20k if I had worked at it and started on time) and spend forever golding from wheat to other resource in which case time to build is key

    Another long answer from me basically saying I think both the analysts and I may be right - both ways get you a hammer and that is the key thing. But happy for others with more experience to chip in and correct me

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Sleeping Dragon: Neglected to mention Gaul ().

  • Well the thing is, its not easy to get that much wheat. Yours is an exceptionally rare case, in that you had 21 croppers besides your capital, and a capital with level 21 fields.

    For those pushing for a huge army and perhaps surrounded by allies, they simply cannot afford level 21 fields (or at least not without extreme difficulty I imagine). Not to mention its nowhere near efficient, but even forgetting the efficiency, someone building a real big army will unlikely get level 21 fields, nor will they probably even think about bothering for several reasons. I imagine you had extra resources as it were, since croppers with oases produce more res than their regular village counterparts.

    I have to ask, were you in the boonies?

    Because there's no way I would have been able to get 21 croppers on any server I've played so far, as generally to get that many would involved covering a large area and encroaching on allies 'personal space'.

    So no, it isn't easy at all to get 300-400k wheat storage. Its exceptionally rare.

    Getting a load of croppers is a good tactic if you have no gold spending worries, as its more resources generally, but its not common or easy.

  • Capital 150% bonus with 15 level 21 wheat

    Total: 375000 and a bit

    Your wheat production: 375k
    Your hammer consumption: 233k

    Isn't this a gross lack of forward planning? Even if we factor in your lost 8k Haeduans and 4k Trebuchets. After all, any player can massively increase their production if they cease to make troops their primary goal.

    I'm certainly getting the impression here that the few players who manage L21 wheat fields do it despite its economic impact, not because of it. Not to take away from your hammer, as it is excellent, but it looks like you shot yourself in the foot.

    The post was edited 4 times, last by Fhuaran ().

  • Yes I have to agree and I was merely illustrating the level of wheat production possible

    Couple of things happened that mitigate my ineptitude:

    (1) I lost 40k of my hammer to an overnight raid in a garage which was more carelessness on my part than poor planning as you say :)
    (2) with very little other resources I needed about 200k per hour wheat to keep troop stacks going so had most of my wheat production in place before the end game
    (3) I launched early - had I gone on day 365 rather than day 330, I would have been at 370k WCT as I was building at 4k per day - on the last point I finished the server on day 340 with 40k WCT in my hammer village and another just under 80k still churning out

    I think I mentioned earlier sometimes you have to send your army in earlier than planned because it will have a bigger impact. That is the risk of a big wheat account - if you go early then its actually pretty much dead :)

    Fun though

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Sleeping Dragon ().

  • Lol, well the server I last played lasted 365 days, so if you are saying 330 days is early then I sent mine early too. :p

    I think it highlights the point. Getting that kind of wheat production is not easy if you are making a huge army. If you aren't making a huge army, then of course there would be plenty of resources to 'waste' on level 21 fields.

    As Fhuaran said, I think you shot yourself in the foot. Had you made a bigger army, which you obviously could have (which means you would have been spending more on troops and their upkeep), I think you would have struggled to get level 21 fields. So really its level 21 fields OR huge army, which is why I said it isn't easy or common.

    No disrespect, but it does seem that way. :)

  • I am always shooting myself in the foot, I am surpised I dont have a permanent limp

    With the benefit of hindsight I would not have changed the dispostion of my vilages but would have done the following and had a 400k WCT hammer with no need to garage it:

    (1) not spent so much time chatting on skype on server 2 that I forgot to start server 3 for 22 days!!!!
    (2) joined an allaince early on as then I wouldnt have had to suffer constant raids for four weeks whilst trying to get my first settlers
    (3) definitely not been a Gaul and at least I could have got some good raiding in in the first two weeks I turfed up and thus got to village 2 quicker

    Those 22 days at the start cost me 88k troops by finish :( that will teach me to be a chatterbox!

    My big miscalculation though was I had thought we were going to be a 365 day server and not a 340 day server so I not only lost 22 days at the start, I lost 25 days at the end. By the time the penny had dropped in my pea-like empty shell of a brain I already had the infrastructure for level 21 at which point I was pretty much committed.

    Lesson for me is if you have a 365 day server its worth the level 21 fields as you can get to 400k plus in that time. Less than 350 then level 20 does as well but thats only about a 35k difference - you can still get over 320k wheat easy.

    I shot myself in the foot in a zillion ways, but I think my point is still valid - I was never short of resources, I was short of time for my hammer.

    Another player, starting on time and with 330 days before launch would have got to 220 + 40 (lost) + 80 (chattering) = 340k with ease.

    But me, I just hair-brained it :)

  • But you were short of time partly because you spent so much time getting level 21 fields surely? I acknowledge the late start, not so much the 'early' finish though, since it wouldn't be that far off when bigger armies are generally launched annyway.

    As well as the cost of the level 21 fields, there is the infrastructure, and the level 20 fields before that.

    I'm afraid I can't be bothered to work it all out (:oops:), but I'm sure it would be a while before it paid off, and all those hundreds of millions of resources could have been pumping out and feeding troops via NPC.

    Of course like most things in travian its about the sweet spot. When is the best compromise, etc.

    I would never go for level 21 fields, it just seems ridiculous to me. All those resources would be put into troops and subsequently feeding those troops. I've never been past 18's myself, because I'm not the most savvy starter (due to boredom at the start and subsequently not enough practice of a 'good' start nor raiding effort), which has a knock on effect until after mid game when I can use what I believe to be good planning and organisational skills to get the best out of my account and catch up through a number of conquers and such.

    But anyway, I believe the point we originally disagreed with was that its easy to get 300-400k wheat production on a slow server. Yes its possible, but easy or common? No. You must surely see that you were a rare case with level 21 fields and 21 croppers. With a further point being that you could have had an even bigger army if you didn't bother with all that, proving it isn't easy to do both.

    You should have just grabbed a diet arty :p

  • My big miscalculation though was I had thought we were going to be a 365 day server and not a 340 day server so I not only lost 22 days at the start, I lost 25 days at the end. By the time the penny had dropped in my pea-like empty shell of a brain I already had the infrastructure for level 21 at which point I was pretty much committed.

    The infrastructure must still be a small percentage of the actual cost though, so you werent actually commited.

  • 19s don't pay themselves off during a speed server, never mind 20s or 21s

  • I never said they didn't.

    But we're talking slow server here ;)

    Obviously if you're too late doing 19's on a slow server they won't pay for themselves either.

  • 19s don't pay themselves off during a speed server, never mind 20s or 21s

    Its not so much that they dont pay themselves off on a speed server, its that whilst you are building them, you are not running GB/GS. In theory, if you chief villages at a quick enough rate for the rest of the server, you dont need to go to 19s anyway, as the continued increase in resource production will equal the increase in troop feeding costs.