• Doesn't change the fact that their troops are generally weaker than other tribes, I'm sure you can play them as def, but why not make use of their strengths instead of trying to make something weak work...


    They are good at 2 things imo...


    Hold WWs...And be used as boosting/pushing accounts...

    They have the most def/hour of any tribe. And with their monster crop generation, they probably won't run out of crop to feed their slaves unless there's literally no fighting

  • sustaining hammer (lowest per hour crop consumption- 108)

    Romans are lower with HDT actually.


    I also think it's a mistake to look at this stat... Because egyptians have the worst off/crop consumption with their inf/cav combination. So while you can't produce a large amount of units quickly (which means lower upkeep), the few units that you produce are also weak for their upkeep.


    Fewer resource problems when maintaining ques

    Extremely expensive off troops, with extremely poor raiding. If you don't raid, then of course waterworks will help more, compared to other non-raiding accounts. But still expensive troops.



    You can raid in mid game with your hammer for additional income, which makes it comparable to a Gaul hammer.

    Well all hammers can raid, even def can raid. A gaul hammer raids (slightly) better than an Egyptian one though.. And produces a single unit faster = more troops to raid with. And the other tribes are all better at raiding than gauls.



    Defensive ability- Probably the only composition of hammer to have an excellent defensive ability as well. Gauls come close but swords + haeduans are still not the greatest defense in terms of cost. Egyptian offense can be used as defense and it will be almost comparable to Druid+phlax combo (3900 cav+infantry def per hour vs 4500 ). swords+ haeduans come closest (3180 cav+inf def per hour). I can post the whole table later if someone is interested.

    Not sure if you mean for getting caught at home... Or actively using your off to defend others. But if it's the later, mercs + marksmen give very decent defense stats, while being way better in offense, and raiding absurdly much better - marksmen are also a lot faster than Chariots. But yeah, they're decent at defense too, mostly because chariots have very high defense.


    An Egyptain (especialy raiding) can maintain gb/gs ques more easily due to additional production (imagine 93k production instead of 63k at level 15 fields).

    This will be offset massively by the raiding, as mentioned. Though with no raiding, sure it helps a lot. Though, the off/time is still very very low - which means that Egyptians will have to run queues a lot better than their counterparts to get the same strenght.



    Since people have already been talking about support role of egyptians, it is a point to consider that you can easily support your catas for wwk. You will not be clearing defense but as the last person you can have one of the largest cata impacts on ww.

    Not sure what you mean with this. Every tribe produces catas at the same speed. A 300k Egyptian hammer will do less damage than a 300k one of the other tribes if the amount of catas is the same. If you're building a WWK, one queue you will be vary of running well, is the workshop queue. It's somewhat rare that a WW is cleared - so just 10k catas with no escort won't do any damage (and if the WW is cleared... Then it doesn't really matter either).


    The damage the catas do is heavily effected by the percentage of the def the attack kills (something you might not realize, since you say you're somewhat new).


    So a weaker Egyptian hammer (even if both hammers are 300k, Egyptian one will be weaker because of the poor off/upkeep) can very well do less damage, even if they have more catas (which shouldn't be the case, as said, since you'd always focus on cata queues if some of your other queues falter).




    Let me know what you guys think :), if something to add or somwhere i am wrong.

    Thanks for the post! Always nice to have some opinions. I don't think you covered the full picture though, and some other small stuff was off too... But I still like the effort ;)

  • Egyptian is to Travian like Legionnaire is to Roman. Costly but also effective in some regards.


    Egyptian offense is like legion + EI hammer. It's possible but rarely anyone will make it.


    Please when reading through keep in mind I mentioned it is meant for people who are not very active or very new. Comparing Egyptian offense to any other tribe than gauls is difficult as they arent specilized for it.



    They have the most def/hour of any tribe. And with their monster crop generation, they probably won't run out of crop to feed their slaves unless there's literally no fighting

    Its a smaller map. Players who get a 0-50% Oasis Cropper will not be able to afford slaves.



    Romans are lower with HDT actually

    Sorry it was 98 :) I had put basic helms in calculation. Romans with HDT are 106 (imp + EC).



    I also think it's a mistake to look at this stat... Because egyptians have the worst off/crop consumption with their inf/cav combination. So while you can't produce a large amount of units quickly (which means lower upkeep), the few units that you produce are also weak for their upkeep.

    Point taken. Never meant it as a way to justify their use as offense. Its just a stat that is out there. if you make troops for a month you save around 6k crop (comparing it to Roman with HDT), ofcourse with significantly low offense produced. But if you think about a non-cap hammer, the extra resources(Waterworks) + resources saved could keep GB GS running far longer than will be possible for other tribes. We will see how practical it will be in the end. My aim was just to explore an option for those who are stuck with it (like me :D )


    I do think 110 attack on a 3 crop troop is very low. They should consider putting it to 120.


    Extremely expensive off troops, with extremely poor raiding. If you don't raid, then of course waterworks will help more, compared to other non-raiding accounts. But still expensive troops

    Agreed. Without cavalry specialized in attack, they will always be more expensive. and not worth the resources.

    Well all hammers can raid, even def can raid. A gaul hammer raids (slightly) better than an Egyptian one though.. And produces a single unit faster = more troops to raid with. And the other tribes are all better at raiding than gauls.

    We are forgetting the great equilizer is the speed. swords (6) vs Kopesh (7). 1 troops difference will be equilized with the speed when raiding.


    Again never contradicting fact that they both are poor raiders. But I think it will be able to raid similar to a Gaul hammer would.



    Not sure if you mean for getting caught at home... Or actively using your off to defend others. But if it's the later, mercs + marksmen give very decent defense stats, while being way better in offense, and raiding absurdly much better - marksmen are also a lot faster than Chariots. But yeah, they're decent at defense too, mostly because chariots have very high defense.


    I didn't mean it to be active defense, just in case of emergency, it actually acts like a defense composition. mercs + marksmen are great as well for an average offense than can def. Thanks for pointing that out! I haven't tried Huns yet and keep forgetting Mercs stats.




    This will be offset massively by the raiding, as mentioned. Though with no raiding, sure it helps a lot. Though, the off/time is still very very low - which means that Egyptians will have to run queues a lot better than their counterparts to get the same strenght.

    Light Raiding with Waterworks could match resource levels of an active gaul/roman raider. For beginners and non-active players like me its pretty good.



    Not sure what you mean with this. Every tribe produces catas at the same speed. A 300k Egyptian hammer will do less damage than a 300k one of the other tribes if the amount of catas is the same. If you're building a WWK, one queue you will be vary of running well, is the workshop queue. It's somewhat rare that a WW is cleared - so just 10k catas with no escort won't do any damage (and if the WW is cleared... Then it doesn't really matter either).


    The damage the catas do is heavily effected by the percentage of the def the attack kills (something you might not realize, since you say you're somewhat new).


    So a weaker Egyptian hammer (even if both hammers are 300k, Egyptian one will be weaker because of the poor off/upkeep) can very well do less damage, even if they have more catas (which shouldn't be the case, as said, since you'd always focus on cata queues if some of your other queues falter).

    THis comment was not meant for top 50 accounts. But ones who for some reason have lagged behind in cropper development from top golders and 24x7 accounts.
    WIth Egyptians they will also be able to take part in making wwk, which contains a lot of cata+ low offense army (25% lower attack strength). Since cata is made at the same rate, extra crop helps them sustain it wihout a lot of gold expense or raiding.
    Those who do not have an account to support catas when crop goes negetive or when you are ina long que for storage to make those level 18-19-20 fields.


    For Egyptians those conditions will not be as big of an issue.




    hanks for the post! Always nice to have some opinions. I don't think you covered the full picture though, and some other small stuff was off too... But I still like the effort

    Thanks for the detailed comments! I didn't think I would cover the whole picture but I wanted to try. I am still new and learning :).

  • Sorry it was 98 I had put basic helms in calculation. Romans with HDT are 106 (imp + EC).

    Not sure exactly what you're looking at but..


    Egyptians:
    Travian :: offense calculator
    = 110 upkeep per hour produced


    Romans with EC:
    Travian :: offense calculator


    = 108 upkeep per hour produced



    Romans with EI:


    Travian :: offense calculator


    = 102 upkeep per hour produced


    No arte, no helmets (since it seems like that's what you're going for?)



    We are forgetting the great equilizer is the speed. swords (6) vs Kopesh (7). 1 troops difference will be equilized with the speed when raiding.


    Again never contradicting fact that they both are poor raiders. But I think it will be able to raid similar to a Gaul hammer would.

    Swords and Khopesh are about even.. With Khopesh very slightly better. But Haeduans are quite lot better than Chariots imo - and even if you go TTs which will of course give you very good raiding, you still get more off/time and off/upkeep than Egyptians lol.



    Thanks for pointing that out! I haven't tried Huns yet and keep forgetting Mercs stats.

    Very obvious choice if you want to go hamvil. Marksmen are actually insane in their off/def capabilities combined. They have really good stats all around.



    WIth Egyptians they will also be able to take part in making wwk, which contains a lot of cata+ low offense army (25% lower attack strength). Since cata is made at the same rate, extra crop helps them sustain it wihout a lot of gold expense or raiding.
    Those who do not have an account to support catas when crop goes negetive or when you are ina long que for storage to make those level 18-19-20 fields.

    If you want to make a budget WWK, I'd say Romans are still clearly the best. As an example: you can have a Roman EC hammer with ~160k upkeep, and it has the same off power as an Egyptian one at ~180k.


    Besides that, as I mentioned, how much you kill of the defense matters a lot too for the damage your catas do - so if you have two armies with the same upkeep and cata count, any of the other tribes will do more damage - and some times even with a lower cata count.


    A Roman hammer could focus on catas and relax on other queues, while Egyptians kept all queues running, and still do the same/more damage (ofc within limits, not if the Egyptian pumps out 40k more troops or w/e, but that isn't gonna happen if both accounts are same effort/gold spending).


    And if you want to do a budget account, Romans double build will help immensely.

  • SO... about that UK29 hey .....



    If you're a deffer, build what ever you want out of werever you want... you'll never make 600k def.


    Or rather, if you can, you wouldn't have asked in the first place....

  • At some point we lost track of the fact that I never wanted an experienced player and a heavy gold user to play Egyptians offense. I never claimed it will be as good as a specialized group.


    Only for new or semi active players, who still want to try a hammer (and I know a few people who would). This will be safer cuz in the worst case it could be used as defense, compared to roman or sword + TT.


    The Hun budget hammer does seem similar match though.


    No arte, no helmets (since it seems like that's what you're going for?)

    I was going for the same but I guess I calculated something wrong somewhere :( . I wasn't using workshop as cata rate is same.

    nd even if you go TTs which will of course give you very good raiding, you still get more off/time and off/upkeep than Egyptians lol.

    Definitely. But think of it this way, now even that hammer seems good ? :D





    If you're a deffer, build what ever you want out of werever you want... you'll never make 600k def.


    Or rather, if you can, you wouldn't have asked in the first place....

    My point was just for people who are stuck with egyptians for next few months and want to go offense to get some perspective :) Since everyone is saying no to it. Its a game, some play to enjoy :P.

  • At some point we lost track of the fact that I never wanted an experienced player and a heavy gold user to play Egyptians offense. I never claimed it will be as good as a specialized group.


    Only for new or semi active players, who still want to try a hammer (and I know a few people who would). This will be safer cuz in the worst case it could be used as defense, compared to roman or sword + TT.<span style="background-color: rgb(236, 215, 174); font-size: 18.4px;">

    Hun hamvil ( Mercenary+Marksman ) makes more sense if anyone wants to play off and def

    in2. jin
    au1. rock
    com4/uk1. Moondance

  • Just nitpicking, but remember to subtract 6 crop upkeep from those numbers as the hero is included in kirilloids offense calculator upkeep numbers ;)
    And using 1 hour is a relative small number, so could be some rounding issues, but it does not change the order.

  • At some point we lost track of the fact that I never wanted an experienced player and a heavy gold user to play Egyptians offense. I never claimed it will be as good as a specialized group.

    Oh I'm perfectly aware of that. You just made some points that applied to experinced players too.


    Besides that, I also adressed the "low activity/budget" bit when I mentioned that Romans would still be a better low budget WWK than Egyptians.



    Just nitpicking, but remember to subtract 6 crop upkeep from those numbers as the hero is included in kirilloids offense calculator upkeep numbers

    Yep that's true, but as you said, doesn't change the order ;)

  • So as to not continue hijacking the other uk29 chats, I'll bring some of the chat here.


    I want to say welcome to Badegg! Those that know me from the old days will tell you that your experience of me thus far is very common. I see the forum as my playground, a place to have fun, do great banter, humiliate myself, humiliate others and overall, have a great bonding experience. Believe it or not, Travian used to be played on the forum! The UK forums used to be buzzing, wars were started and even ended on the forum lol.
    Do I have an ego? You bet! Do I know I have an ego? Sure do! Does it matter? Not a jot, as long as it ends up adding to the community, I'll keep displaying it in all its glory ;)


    Did Blaze make a bit of a fool of himself? Sure! Does it matter? Sure does! He'll learn from the experience and it will actually end up benefiting him in RL when people push his buttons! Win win, we've had a laugh, there's been some entertainment in the conflict, and he'll learn from the experience :)

  • Out of curiousity why this servers auctions are really expensive ?I don't have to pay this much to stuff on other servers unlike here.

  • Hi Chris,
    You know what Im pretty sure my first ever travian server you were on it back in the day (being one of the top players) but we're talking like when I was a kid back in school.


    My posts were designed to push buttons, as I'm sure you've already noticed. I don't mean to be a Badegg I was just born like it.


    No hard feelings at all, like you said its been a laugh.


    I guess if you look at it from an outside perspective.. would you of been excited about the blaze acccount joining AA? I doubt it.. everyone wants a server to be as competetive as possible for natural reasons, it would of been cool to see a strong account like yours against what everyone saying is a decent alliance (A.A) Makes more interesting battle reports to read.


    That being said you guys are absolutely right in the fact that now we have to give you a run for your money and hopefully organise some decent hurdles for you.


    And for you Blaze, My IGN is an account in the top 250 players. Hope that helps :P

  • Ooh,


    So give us a clue like in the 'Guess the Player Thread'!!!


    Lag

    I’m not good-looking. I used to be but not anymore. Not like Robert Taylor. What I have got is I have character in my face. It’s taken an awful lot of late nights and drinking to put it there. When I go to work in a picture, I say, ‘Don’t take the lines out of my face. Leave them there'
    - Humphrey Bogart


    Anglosphere 6 - Salacious B Crumb

  • I certainly agree about our account joining A.A etc.


    My usual response to A.A would have been to organize and lead an alliance myself... or join an alliance and end up being drawn into leadership. I'm studying full-time though and don't have the time... therefore to not join A.A would basically be suicide.

  • It may be late for the egyptian calculations for offense, but here are the numbers we ran before deciding against starting on uk29.


    With a moderate amount of gold you can get to level 18 fields before artefacts with a 150/125% 15c. If you have a 100% you can still get to 17s. After you get these fields you can still sim a large enough army to easily clear a unique arty with 30-40% losses (primary army) and train a second army that is large enough to clear a large arty for your deffer or clear 2-3 smalls. This is the standard offensive startup for about the last 10 years. Many guides exist for this. Alternatively, you can put the same resources into training GB/GS army and have a single large army that you will suffer less losses clearing your unique/great/small, or you can do the more difficult raiding startup.


    Either way, let's base these comments on 125% 15c and 17/18s before arties, because an egyptian player (with hero resource bonus) should get one of the best croppers and with waterworks they will complete their cropper 1-2 weeks before any other tribe. It is also possible to do this on a solo account without dualing - last UK1 I had 18s before arties and then cleared 2 arties on solo account playing def.


    Now, if you factor in that the egyptian will finish their cap earlier, and produce A LOT more resources from this, you will find that:
    * they can produce a WHOLE extra army - or extra GB/GS production
    * they can start producing it earlier


    This out-competes all other factors for mid-game hammer production for simming hammers.


    The numbers based on above on a 125% 15c:
    53,000 extra resources /hr


    These resources can be used to make an extra 1,4mil attack points using GB/GS with egypt, or 1,8mil attack points if you train another army (compared to roman)


    1,8mil attack points is 7,000 imperians and 4,700 EC.


    The egyptians will never make a good WWK because long-term the teutons and romans will produce more and raid more. But mid-game, the power of setting up the fast capital and producing this extra army would be devastating in my opinion. I would play egyptians offensively for sure.


    If you wish to comment that you could not feed 3 armies this early with egyptian - you can afford to smash enemies with an entire extra 24/7 production army pre-artifact army under this scenario ;) It's an extra expendable army...

  • Thats if you play solo and not interested in raiding...

    Yes, these days to out-raid a simmer's growth you really need to be dual/trip account to raid 24/7. I used to be able to do this and settle first on server, but the risk is too high on landing in a quad with a botter or another big raider. If this happens you are totally screwed. This means anyone going solo cannot compete under that scenario unless they are lucky, and they will fail >50% of the time. I do not have the calcs these days on the best scenario for a 24/7 account on uber gold (as I generally try to provide guides for the masses) - I think those are fewer and you probably have a specialist setup rather than a general guide...

  • I remember using one of your earlier cropper building guides many a years ago Chris lol. But yes most players who stick with this badly addictive game can take a guide and adapt it to their own skill set with personal preferences, gold usage and account activity levels. In my opinion any guide that improves other people's accounts improves all of our servers so it's great when someone spends their own time creating such guides. I always try to help anyone that may need it who plays in AA with me, new or old.


    With regards to UK29 - none of the first 3 accounts to settle were Egyptians, it was a Hun, Teuton and Roman. It takes a lot of adaptation to make use of the extra resources and I think a lot of Egyptians underestimated this.


    Roman 150% 15c with all 13's and one 14 fields had - 39500 wheat.


    Egyptian 125% 15c with same field levels and level 20 waterworks had 52500 wheat.


    I think they have a little too much of an early advantage which could be lowered a little by removing or cutting in half the extra hero resource bonus and allowing waterworks in only the capital.