Thoughts on New Tribes

    Excat wrote:

    What is the point in defending with your offensive infantry , is exchanging roles a thing in a competent embassy?

    If you just have play hammers, it doesn't matter losing some infantry defending... And it's not "offensive infantry", it's both offensive and defensive. Of course it should be avoided as much as possible but... Can definitely come in handy, especially if you are near the border area, or have in-quad opposition with relatively short travel times to you.



    Excat wrote:

    Are ghost hammers a thing in standard speed servers?

    Yes ;)

    Excat wrote:

    I cant wait to see those huns ghost hammers reports :DDD

    Our only ghoster on our team is #3 attacker on the server. Hun ghosts are quite good. Think EIs at TT speed (with hero on proper gear).

    ..And that is the Final Word.

    wishmaster3 wrote:

    Don't have anything from ordinary servers, only F&S beta (com8) - but here's a teammates hit:


    Converter - Battle reports Travian

    Nice hit. A successful ghosting is always very pretty to look at. If nothing, the bounty is usually very nice.



    wishmaster3 wrote:


    Personally haven't really done any ghosting, been busy cataing people instead (in regards to catching hammers at home.. I did get this juicy one out of it Converter - Battle reports Travian )

    Are you sure that is a Hammer? I mean that is a freakin Egyptian. And that was neither a rammer nor a cata hammer. Just bits n pieces. Good hit anyway.

    An Egyptian hammer Hammer, it is just sad. Truly sad. You wanna play offense, very nice. But why Egyptian? Why? I feel like screaming here ...


    Just think about this scenario -


    Pick Huns. Go for defense. So you'll train Mercenary and Marksman. Now after sometime you find out that comparing other defense troops, your units cost more and actually are not that good. So ... lets train a stupid hammer instead. Well, what do you know?


    Mercenary + Marksman > Swordsman + Haeduan in terms attack power/time. And lets just leave the poor Egyptians alone.


    Egyptians troops are not best at anything. Slave militia may produce the highest def/time but they eat a lot, like clubs. But Ash warden + Anhur Guard / Resheph is a very good combination. Yes, they cost more than equivalents but you'll easily produce a lot more with waterworks. Your real advantage is there. I promise you'll enjoy simming a lot more.

    Number of Egyptians on F&S beta (the server wish has report from) was I think 70% :) New races were first introduced there so many people wanted to check it out. F&S that followed a month later is not much different and we have several Egyptians hammers of decent size too - everyone bored.


    Resheph are the troops I fear at the moment, defense value is just crazy. Expansive, yes, but can do wonders.

    wishmaster3 wrote:

    It really feels does feel odd to have defensive cavalry that are actually efficient enough as standing to compete with infantry :p

    Once you enter mid game, I don't think the cost would be an issue even for smaller Egyptian accounts. Resheph is same as
    phalanx in terms def/crop. The cost is twice but think them as speedy Phalanx. Ash + Resheph is really a very solid combo.


    And when you think about the attack damage, you won't find the defense that odd. I hope people would learn sooner than later and use the tribes as they were designed for.

    Asif wrote:

    Once you enter mid game, I don't think the cost would be an issue even for smaller Egyptian accounts. Resheph is same as
    phalanx in terms def/crop. The cost is twice but think them as speedy Phalanx. Ash + Resheph is really a very solid combo.

    ? I think you misunderstood. It's funny to have a cavalry unit that is on the same level for standing defense as an infantry unit (comparable def/upkeep) - because we've never had that before.

    wishmaster3 wrote:

    It's funny to have a cavalry unit that is on the same level for standing defense as an infantry unit (comparable def/upkeep) - because we've never had that before.

    I dont agree here. In my opinion if you want a cavalry unit with a comparable def/unkeep, I think druidriders still lead the ladder for the fast defensive points. The numbers speak for themselves. They are only 5 point in def/upkeep behind chariots, but 60% faster.
    Of course chariots are more well-rounded but Im ignoring off points there.
    Best

    Excat wrote:

    I dont agree here. In my opinion if you want a cavalry unit with a comparable def/unkeep, I think druidriders still lead the ladder for the fast defensive points. The numbers speak for themselves. They are only 5 point in def/upkeep behind chariots, but 60% faster.Of course chariots are more well-rounded but Im ignoring off points there.
    Best

    When we are discussing standing defense, speed is a mute point.


    If you want fast defense, Druid is the best. But most offense points of a hammer comes from Cavalry units so may be Druid is not that good as what we tend to believe.


    For same upkeep, lets say 15k Druid vs 10k Resheph and the attacking army is 1 month worth of hammer (For Teutons - 27093 clubs, 6570 TK, 4635 Ram / For Romans - 10147 Imperion, 6916 EC, 4232 Ram etc.) see the conditions below :


    (i) Only condition where Druid performs better if it is a Club hammer. Even if it is a Club hammer but the hero has TK gear (it should be club gear for most damage output), the difference is almost negligible.


    (ii) For every other hammer type, Resheph performs better.


    Also consider that - Resheph will produce defense points much quicker than Druids.


    If an Egyptian player train (Ash + Resheph), you can't beat that combo in terms of defense with any other tribe. When it comes to replacing the defense (after a successful mission) Egyptians will be ready much more quicker than others. With Egyptians, you can sim faster and be ready to spam defense before other tribes. Also the extra production somehow balances the extra troop cost, I think.

    Asif wrote:

    Also consider that - Resheph will produce defense points much quicker than Druids.

    Yes I ignored that part, I did not realize how fast chariots are produced.



    Asif wrote:

    (i) Only condition where Druid performs better if it is a Club hammer. Even if it is a Club hammer but the hero has TK gear (it should be club gear for most damage output), the difference is almost negligible.

    You right I just checked in Kirilloid and only in the case of club hammers druids perform better. And with the introduction of huns, egyptians will benefit of its cavalry defenses.


    But teutons still are the best hammers in my opinion, so druids are thing. Also I see your point of why Egyptians are the best defensive tribe in the late stages of the server by far, and the advantage of their use as a tech accounts.


    I havent made the calculations of how would affect the waterworks in a top account to the production of a egyptian hammer. But they are 300 points behind gauls in off/month, being the worse of all
    Best

    I'm glad we agreed. :)


    And there is actually no such thing as an Egyptian Hammer and certainly in a top account. ;)


    Egyptian troops costs more than their counterparts in other tribes. You are paying only second to Romans to have the weakest Hammer - doesn't sound like something an experienced player would do. Gallic hammer, though stronger than Egyptians, still weaker than other tribes - so that should be avoided as well.


    Extra resource bonus for Egyptians is not just given. You have to actually work for that. For a normal 6c, a 25% bonus means extra 350 resource/hour. If you have crop bonus with is, that would add another 525 resource/hour. This would vary a little depending on village type and oasis bonus. Also having multiple oases means more bonus. But it will actually do wonders to your crop production in capital. 8o