UK Goes To Munich!

  • But to get back to the idea of Skype meetings for alliance leaders. There are 30 or so domains. There is a CM for each one. To get each to provide the list of names (publicly announced on the forum - these can be just leader of such and such alliance) plus a time and a contact doesn’t take long, provided they know their community. If they don’t then that’s a pretty good indication of which are doing a good job or not isn’t it? If you don’t want to use Skype, there are plenty of cheap online meeting platforms like join.me. The agenda comes from a forum thread asking for questions. You schedule in an hour, post the agenda on the forum and the minutes at the end.

    It's not that simple. I was about to write 5 pages essay why but it does not really matter, lets assume TG found a way to decide which alliance to be invited on if not on all but on most domains and who is to represent each. You said 30 domains (I thought it is over 40 but I may be mistaken), I would say minimum of 2 from each speed type so 4 per domain. It is 120 people, if each gets 5 minutes total to talk we have 10 hours meeting on hands. Time - leadership room of my alliance was 5 people last server, EU, both costs of US and AU. It is not easy to find time when all 5 of us are comfortably on-line (i.e. can sit down and talk for even 30 mins) no idea how to make it possible for 120. Language - with absolute certainty I can tell you that majority of chosen 120 across the globe will speak no English (or German, or any other language) leave alone good enough English to participate in audio conversation.


    If you meant a sequence of such meeting in different zones language is still an issue, I have no idea if TG has anyone in their staff to run such meeting on Vietnamese or Turkish for example. In any case, TG did exactly that - they picked a sample of the group you are suggesting and invited that group for face to face meeting. It was not easy for everyone to participate in fast paced conversation even between even 15 people (language again), official part of the meeting lasted somewhat 20 hours, casual conversations in small groups were probably another 30 hours, yet we all left with questions we did not find time/good opportunity to ask.


    I like the approach, I want to see TG building up on the event and improving the process. So what made you think that an on-line meeting of 120 (much more really) people will be more productive?

  • First of all I'd assume the CMs of each domain can actually speak the language of the domain they manage, and they would be the best people to run this. Of course you wouldn't have 120 people on, that would be ridiculous. You would do one domain at a time, each meeting hosted by the CM, not just one meeting for everyone in all domains, what a stupid idea that would be. So let's put it in a different perspective. UK has 6 servers running plus speed. Many of those servers only have 3 alliances. Some of them cross over between servers. You would limit the number of places to something sensible like 15, assuming that around 5 probably won't show up. So already it becomes much more manageable doesn't it? Now out of those 10, I can think of at least 7 alliance leaders who never come on the forum, are very negative about relationships with TG and who each influence in the region of 40 to 100 players. UK isn't unique in size, it isn't the biggest domain, but neither is it the smallest so the majority of domains would fall into a similar structure for the meetings. With some of the big domains, you might have to hold two or three meetings. If the main questions are agreed in advance through the forum then the time can be structured. Anything can be done with a little bit of vision and work.


    Also tell me Ele, since this Munich event was taking representatives from a cross section of the Travian:Legends players, how many Vietnamese, Turkish or Arabian players were part of the sample group? And I'm sure you do like the approach, since you were one of the 0.001% or so of the player base that had the opportunity to go. It wasn't quite as much fun for everyone else. As for how productive it was, in marketing terms it was what would be termed "high cost, low impact". How many players, not forum users, but players, do you think are aware of it?


    Anyway, it was great to get such a positive response from you to a new idea.


    Stand out Award 2017 UK
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    The post was edited 4 times, last by Mercedes ().

  • Seems this thread has devolved into "thumb wars". Perhaps it should be closed. I see no constructive progress being made and the topic for which it was made is well over with and done.

    ..And that is the Final Word.


  • First of all I'd assume the CMs of each domain can actually speak the language of the domain they manage, and they would be the best people to run this.

    The main advantage of such meeting is direct conversation with hands-on people. I understand not everybody is going to forums, this is a choice though. If people want to talk to CMs they can do it quite easy.

    Also tell me Ele, since this Munich event was taking representatives from a cross section of the Travian:Legends players, how many Vietnamese, Turkish or Arabian players were part of the sample group?

    You know the answer so what is the reason for the question? I don't know if any attempt was made to invite players from above mentioned domain, I am sure though that pool of people with reasonable English is smaller there than in Europe/US and, probably even more important, getting a visa is more complicated than traveling to Germany with EU or US passport. In any case, did I say anywhere if that was a perfect representative sample and does it have to be?

    And I'm sure you do like the approach, since you were one of the 0.001% or so of the player base that had the opportunity to go. It wasn't quite as much fun for everyone else.

    By approach I mean collaboration between game makers and large/small groups of players, not specific event. Are you implying that you are better qualify to assess the event only because I was directly involved with it? That I am not allowed to discuss effectiveness of it because I was part of the working group? Quite a bit of stretch in my opinion.


    Constructive criticism would be to say that face to face meeting did not achieve certain objectives that are important for you and why if it done in the way you are suggested it will have better chance. You did not answer this question. Instead you (not you personally, you as a group) keep dropping remarks in the line with "We paid for your jolly vacation" and somehow expect me to smile and nod to such comments. Dislikes (looks like you think they mean something at this point) is another play of constructive criticism in your book, I assume.
    The idea is not new btw, it was discussed in your presence in pre-Munich chat you eventually left for no reason.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by ELE ().

  • If people want to talk to CMs they can do it quite easy.

    Lol, speak for yourself. We are currently without a permanent CM and TK barely had a basic understanding of the English language.

  • My constructive criticism is that around 95% of the player base don’t use the forum and are influenced by a small number of people, many of whom again, don’t use the forum. They don’t feel heard in any way and the Munich event hasn’t achieved the objective of making those players feel more in contact with TG.


    You have totally missed the point. This isn’t about players making an effort to communicate with the company, why should they? It’s about the company, who are and have been losing players hand over fist for years, making an effort to communicate with them and improve their standing with their player base. You might have got a lot out of the Munich event but for the money it cost there are far more effective ways of reaching a much wider audience. And Ele, sorry if you feel guilty if it’s pointed out that your trip was funded by players gold. Personally, I didn’t realise TG have a magic money tree to fund things like this. I was under the insane assumption that their profit comes directly from the money players spend. Silly me.


    Stand out Award 2017 UK
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    The post was edited 8 times, last by Mercedes ().

  • Lol, speak for yourself. We are currently without a permanent CM and TK barely had a basic understanding of the English language.

    Wonder why.. you people are an ungrateful bunch.

    ..And that is the Final Word.


  • Probably because the first one we had for years was promoted up the line to Munich, the second who was really liked “left” and the third was TK. I know, terrible people we are to have been through three CMs in ten years.


    Stand out Award 2017 UK
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  • Probably because the first one we had for years was promoted up the line to Munich, the second who was really liked “left” and the third was TK. I know, terrible people we are to have been through three CMs in ten years.

    Yea I'm sure it'll be filled soon as people must be knocking down the doors to be part of such an inclusive community. Thankfully there is Ameno.

    ..And that is the Final Word.


  • Yea I'm sure it'll be filled soon as people must be knocking down the doors to be part of such an inclusive community. Thankfully there is Ameno.h

    I’m sorry if your little group of Ele, wishmaster, you and blackblade aren’t feeling as welcome as you would like. How about you come and play one of our servers and become part of the community properly rather than just coming on the forum and negating suggestions that some of our players, who are actually reluctant to post here because of your little clique, are trying to make before they get shouted down with walls of text. You would be very welcome if you listened to other people too, but although I’m the most outspoken, I’m not the only one who feels they are being driven off their own forum domain by people who think they should come and squash down any suggestion that doesn’t agree with what their more expert opinion is, simply by virtue of the fact that they are Com players, then insult us all because we have chosen to argue back rather than bowing down and worshipping at your feet.


    And no, that’s not British sarcasm.


    I made a valid suggestion and gave examples of how it could be made to work. How about you try reading it properly before you just decide to start throwing insults around and produce some constructive criticism?


    Lol at you disliking my post for stating a fact,


    ChrisVC was our CM for years, then mHudson for a couple of years, then TK. Three CMs. Ten years. Fact. Better to ignore the one before Chris who was ehm erm eww, think TG would prefer to forget him.


    Stand out Award 2017 UK
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    The post was edited 3 times, last by Mercedes ().

  • Hi all.


    Just a small reminder, that I work as temporary replacement of UK/US CM. I have basic understanding of English language, I hope, feel free to contact me on that language. About live web with alliance leaders - what exactly you want to discuss there, which hasn't been discussed on forum? You can give short list of questions and the agenda of a meeting, and we can actually organize something.


    Given my workload, I can't promise that the meeting will last more than 1 hour, but I am open to the suggestions. I also can't promise that such meetings can be held on regular basis, but it really depends on the outcome of the meeting.


    As for a very heated discussion here, I would like to remind you about forum guidelines, and advise you to go back to respectful and factual manner of the conversation.


    Cheers, Ameno

    Ameno.png
    When you contact me via PM, please, send your messages in English.

  • Hi Ameno, thanks for your reply.


    I think the topics are almost less important than the idea that people might be willing to listen to them. Thank you for being open to the idea, I’m glad you also think it’s worth a try.


    I’ll put something together and let you know in a couple of days.


    Stand out Award 2017 UK
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  • I’m sorry if your little group of Ele, wishmaster, you and blackblade aren’t feeling as welcome as you would like. How about you come and play one of our servers and become part of the community properly rather than just coming on the forum and negating suggestions that some of our players, who are actually reluctant to post here because of your little clique, are trying to make before they get shouted down with walls of text. You would be very welcome if you listened to other people too, but although I’m the most outspoken, I’m not the only one who feels they are being driven off their own forum domain by people who think they should come and squash down any suggestion that doesn’t agree with what their more expert opinion is, simply by virtue of the fact that they are Com players, then insult us all because we have chosen to argue back rather than bowing down and worshipping at your feet.
    And no, that’s not British sarcasm.


    I made a valid suggestion and gave examples of how it could be made to work. How about you try reading it properly before you just decide to start throwing insults around.

    I have a clique now? Interesting.


    Walls of text? Guess we'll try to keep it to Twitter length so you can better digest what is written. People disagreeing and bringing up counterpoints or playing devil's advocate is not shouting down or squashing. For everything you've accused us for, you are guilty of the same.

    ..And that is the Final Word.


  • They don’t feel heard in any way and the Munich event hasn’t achieved the objective of making the players feel more in contact with TG, on,y a very small and select few.

    At this point, no matter what TG does, you will complain that it's wrong or that they don't listen. TG have stated that they will be looking to do the same event again - with new players each time. They invited respected veteran players, who are visible here on the forums. Sure, not everyone goes on the forums... But how are players to be selected otherwise, preferably without too high costs? You want them to send a message to every single alliance leader in game? Or do you want it to be only the friends of mods/CMs who get a chance by recommendation? That doesn't seem very inclusive either... It's easy to gauge engagement and drive for the game and it's development by forum posts - not so much in any way else.



    Your trip was funded with players gold. Where else do you think TG makes its money? From a magic tree perhaps?

    Alright, so TG shouldn't spend money on engaging with it's most vocal and caring players... But wait, they should spend a ton of money on setting up skype chats with leaders, who historically don't care about communication their opinions or interest, across all domains? Or is UK the only community that matters, so that's the one they should set up a skype chat with? (that's what it seems more and more like...)



    Live web meetings aren't at all difficult to organise, if it would take you a year to set it up then that's a pretty good indication of how poor TG are. I could get you one set up with UK alliance leaders in a couple of days and if you knew the key people on other domains I would expect they could do the same.

    You could set it up... Because you personally play and know the leaders you're talking about. That doesn't mean TG can set it up that easily - and again, if you're the one selecting players to participate... I'm fairly sure there are plenty of leaders and teams that won't get a say :)



    I don't think I've ever come across a company before that relies almost completely on unpaid volunteers as their front line of customer communications other than charities.

    But now you want them to rely on unpaid random players in the community to set up skype meetings? :huh: Or you want their paid employees to spend time on it?



    It was TG that seemed to be wanting a more direct and open link to the community, but it seems that actually it's all pie in the sky as usual.

    TG invited vocal players to Munich to have a throughout discussion of issues facing the game and how to improve the game. The participants weren't selected based on not being critical of TG. I was one of the potential participants, but my name wasn't drawn in the end... And I'm pretty sure you've all read my little guide on how to roll out a patch, directed at TG... I'm sure you've also all seen the criticism that Lemon has directed towards TG on multiple occasions, and ELE herself has been highly critical too.


    So we have highly critical community members, who still get invited to Munich... Who fear that it's just a PR trip before they go there... Come back and all tell us that TG engaged in extensive discussions on how to improve the game, and what has/is being done wrong historically, talking about upcomming features and actively looking for feedback.



    You have Ameno herself directly and extensively replying to your questions here, explaining why logistically it's hard to set up chat rooms with leaders across all communities and servers... But not ruling it completely out...

    Live web with alliance leaders of 30+ communities speaking on different languages doesn't look like something we can realistically do, I guess. Organizing it community by community might take a year and not sure that the outcome would worth the efforts, but this is something we can consider, still. There are simpler ways to discuss something what bothers leaders / players. If they want to share something, they can do it on forum openly.


    Yet all you can say is "I could set it up ez, noob TG", not bothering to reply constructively, but instead it's of course TG's fault again:

    It was TG that seemed to be wanting a more direct and open link to the community, but it seems that actually it's all pie in the sky as usual.



    I still think TG did a lot of stuff wrong... And they still do now too. Yet they've reached out to the community, which is something that we have been asking for years. But we all know you have your own personal vendetta against TG, so of course you're going to continue the path you're on - which is fine... But you repeating the same posts over and over again, no matter what is said, is getting tiresome.


    You playing the victim card every time someone disagrees with anything you say is getting even more tiresome.


    You and others have directly lied about what ELE said in other threads, so you could make stuff up about her hating UK, or you personally. When you were called out on your lies, you completely ignored it.


    I think ELE made some mistakes in her communication here, mostly because she gets frustrated. But you and your friends have repeatedly and consistently been twisting her words, to make up some victim persona, while you have all been hostile towards her and other non-UK players and communities per default, as well as Ameno when she tries to engage with you in a meaningfull discussion.




    Now commence the downvotes - seeing as that is the only thing most of your friends have to add to any discussion, no matter the topic.





    Edit:


    You would be very welcome if you listened to other people too, but although I’m the most outspoken, I’m not the only one who feels they are being driven off their own forum domain by people who think they should come and squash down any suggestion that doesn’t agree with what their more expert opinion is,

    Seeing as you're most likely refering to the discussion about limiting duals and farmlisting...


    We had, what? 3 pages? of constructive discussion about both the two opening suggestions. Most people were against the idea, but not a single person said "it's bad, you're dumb, I don't want to post any arguement to explain why, it just is because I'm the pro epic super duper player"... We all brought forth reasonings as to why it would be detrimental to the game, or even fail to achieve it's intended purpose.


    Then afterwards, the discussion moved on to how to help new players, and merrits and downsides about different methods were discussed, and the discussion prompted ELE to offer her services (along with many others) to help new players get into the game ( Sunday school for newbies ).


    But you're saying that because people disagreed with something, and stated why with valid points... They didn't listen? Honestly, to me, engaging in a debate about something, explaining why something probably won't achieve what it's intended to, and offering other options that could solve the issue, shows exactly a big amount of engagement...

  • Tbh both sides are playing the victim card even tho they've been equally aggressive to each other in the past.
    Let's just leave it at, TG has a long way to go....

    They see me rolling
    They hating

  • I'm surprised this thread hasn't been closed already. Pointless arguments.

    Yes, I've built my fair share of WWs. Won a few, lost a few. Played far too many rounds for far too long. Made a lot friends and enemies.


    Yes, I've played as an anvil and as a hammer. I'm only playing now because of all the friendship I have built over the past ten years. I love Travian but I love the community even more.


    Envy me for I have everything, Fear me for I have nothing to lose.