Game improvements

  • Clearly not fair for the roman..He actually lost troops while the defender lost nothing.

    I agree. The defenders should lose as well. It's just that the power of the scout arti is just too powerful.

    Yes, I've built my fair share of WWs. Won a few, lost a few. Played far too many rounds for far too long. Made a lot friends and enemies.


    Yes, I've played as an anvil and as a hammer. I'm only playing now because of all the friendship I have built over the past ten years. I love Travian but I love the community even more.


    Envy me for I have everything, Fear me for I have nothing to lose.

  • While I agree they should be game changers, I also think the the Scout Artis are OP. In general I think scouting is a little broken, though part of that may simply be players not building enough.
    In line with that what I would do is start by decreasing the Scout Arti multipliers. Perhaps 2x (large), 3x (small), 5x (unique). Combine that with increased defensive scouting strength for certain scout types - I'm thinking Tueton and at least 1 other tribe. (I think this would be particularly good if Egyptian scouts were made to be an infantry unit, or perhaps a "camel" unit that only consumes 1 crop). Right now the game already gives a big advantage to offensive scout use, 35 to 20 attack points. So some scouts should arguably be better at defending to make things more dynamic and balanced.


    To summarize in an easier to read list:

    • Decrease Scout multipliers 2x (large), 3x (small), 5x (unique)
    • Increase Scout defense of Tueton and 1 other tribe (Egyptian preferred if combined with suggestion below) to a higher amount (maybe 20 --> 40)
    • Change Egyptian Scout to infantry or 1 crop "cavalry" - think camel rather than horse and decrease unit speed
    • Apply Scout Arti bonus to troops you send elsewhere

    I don't think scouting is broken at all. There is nothing wrong with the arti strength considering the defenders scouts don't die. I am currently a unique arti holder and dedicated scouter, and even with the arti I can still lose hundreds of scouts each day. Defenders just need to make more scouts, which should be easy since they don't die. I know there are a few enemies I know I can scout, but i don't because it is too expensive.


    I'm not against teuton scouts having a better defensive value, since they are not great for scouting strength or for speed and it would be good to have a redeeming feature for them, but the Egyptian scouts are strong enough already, especially when you consider the strength of the egyptian wall.

  • the scout arti is way too OP.


    without it you need what, 60k scouts to not get scouted?


    I am currently a unique arti holder and dedicated scouter, and even with the arti I can still lose hundreds of scouts each day.


    oh boo hoo, a couple hundred scouts, man up

  • I don't feel that the art is overpowered. On intense server I as a defcor can't go with one scouter, they are being lost faster than one account can rebuild.


    Balance between off/def scouts was adjusted recently btw, it was much easier to scout before.
    [COM]Travian Legends Changelog

  • the scout arti is way too OP.


    without it you need what, 60k scouts to not get scouted?


    oh boo hoo, a couple hundred scouts, man up

    you have no idea how many scouts I lose, I said hundreds as I am not going to give away exactly how I am playing that server, but sometimes I do lose more scouts than I can train in a day, which tells me the arte is not overpowered. But even without the arte i have enough to scout anyone I've seen on that server so far, if people actually trained enough scouts there is no way I'd be able to scout them all the way that I do. If you don't want scouted, man up and train some more scouts and stop whinging about the arte

  • So everyone should start stacking 3,000 scouts in every village to stop 1,000 with a large scout let alone a small or unique?


    Killing scouts alone isn't the goal, its to make it reasonable to stop scouting entirely. The fact walls work again help.


    It is possible that there could be some other mechanic that even if you have more AP in scouts than DP, a scouting can fail. In theory scouts need to get close enough to a village to scout it, with the other scouts patrolling outside the wall to stop them from doing so. (which does make it a little strange the wall has an impact) I say this because it would be rather odd that scouts can simply waltz into a village and scout resources, troops and building stuff.


    You could combine this with mechanics (other than a wall) that benefit scouts, like a watch tower(s). (and remove the wall bonus which I find odd, even if useful) I also would enjoy troop tactics, which can obviously go beyond scouts. Basically being a rock paper scissors sort of thing that adds bonuses. So for instance patrol pattern 1 against scout pattern 2 gains a bonus of 10% of the defending scouts.

  • What you proposed could change the way Travian works entirely. And oddly enough, I'm intrigued by the prospect.


    Walls no longer have an effect on scouting. And if the attacking scouts needs to kill every defensive scout to be able to enter the village and scout.... Now this is a game changer.


    Also. I think a randomness can be applied too. Like if a scout does get through to the village assuming your idea goes through, then the troops in that village has some % chance to spot the scouts and kill them themselves. I mean it's only logical. Troops just don't sit around in a village. They go to the bar to have a drink or hold training exercises or patrol.


    I think this will add a sort of depth to this game that has never been seen before.

    Yes, I've built my fair share of WWs. Won a few, lost a few. Played far too many rounds for far too long. Made a lot friends and enemies.


    Yes, I've played as an anvil and as a hammer. I'm only playing now because of all the friendship I have built over the past ten years. I love Travian but I love the community even more.


    Envy me for I have everything, Fear me for I have nothing to lose.

  • you have no idea how many scouts I lose, I said hundreds as I am not going to give away exactly how I am playing that server, but sometimes I do lose more scouts than I can train in a day, which tells me the arte is not overpowered. But even without the arte i have enough to scout anyone I've seen on that server so far, if people actually trained enough scouts there is no way I'd be able to scout them all the way that I do. If you don't want scouted, man up and train some more scouts and stop whinging about the arte

    You hold the unique. What you got, 3 villages with 20k scouts each?


    No alliance can realistically stop you getting every single troops count they have by double scouting wheat drops. It's toooooo easy.


    Even if scouts that were reinforcements from a scout arti village kept their bonus to make it a bit trickier or something

  • It does depend how well and actively it's used though. I remember one server where the scout holder had a spreadsheet and we knew what every single player worth worrying about on the server had within a few weeks.


    I've also seen large scout artefacts used very effectively to protect key alliance large and unique artefacts as well as WWs and hammers. The artefact isn't just about training scouts.


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  • It does depend how well and actively it's used though. I remember one server where the scout holder had a spreadsheet and we knew what every single player worth worrying about on the server had within a few weeks.


    I've also seen large scout artefacts used very effectively to protect key alliance large and unique artefacts as well as WWs and hammers. The artefact isn't just about training scouts.

    Completely agree. Even without the scout artifact, I have scouted a lot hammers and anvils of my opponents in the server I'm playing right now. I know exactly where their hammers and Anvils are located and if I ever decide to run an op. I know exactly how much defense will reach my targeted village. I have a huge spreadsheet detailing all of this. Maybe I'll post it here once the server is done or I'm zeroed lol. People just don't abuse this enough.

    Yes, I've built my fair share of WWs. Won a few, lost a few. Played far too many rounds for far too long. Made a lot friends and enemies.


    Yes, I've played as an anvil and as a hammer. I'm only playing now because of all the friendship I have built over the past ten years. I love Travian but I love the community even more.


    Envy me for I have everything, Fear me for I have nothing to lose.

  • It does depend how well and actively it's used though. I remember one server where the scout holder had a spreadsheet and we knew what every single player worth worrying about on the server had within a few weeks.


    I've also seen large scout artefacts used very effectively to protect key alliance large and unique artefacts as well as WWs and hammers. The artefact isn't just about training scouts.

    I do agree, the ability to use it differs greatly. I like the spreadsheet method myself (though I would prefer a tool). I will say I've rarely seen those Artefacts used defensively at least during the majority of the game, but again that comes down to player / alliance preference. I usually only see the large used to keep plans safe and sound due to the rally point info. (though obviously beatable)

  • You hold the unique. What you got, 3 villages with 20k scouts each?


    No alliance can realistically stop you getting every single troops count they have by double scouting wheat drops. It's toooooo easy.

    I don't know what numbers @alestorm has in mind, I am talking about an account with 50-70K in main scouting village (depends on server age). It is not common to have unique art on scouters account there I play, can be different on other servers, of course. Even with full count and small art I have to pick and choose what and when to scout (just to get through) and if opposite side prepared well I would lose half of that count or even more. If I need one time crop scouting it would take serious effort to stop such account even without an art and most of the time done through oases anyway or by scouting raid of clubs, if I am looking for defense count at cemented targets like WW.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by ELE ().

  • I do agree, the ability to use it differs greatly. I like the spreadsheet method myself (though I would prefer a tool). I will say I've rarely seen those Artefacts used defensively at least during the majority of the game, but again that comes down to player / alliance preference. I usually only see the large used to keep plans safe and sound due to the rally point info. (though obviously beatable)

    I prefer Unique confusion for keeping plans safe. Not infallible for a long way, but can be very effective. I think one server we tried to get all the plans with one player with the confusion and managed to get 10 under his ownership before some were eventually stolen.


    Unique or large scout holder can chief key alliance artefact villages when incomings are spotted. WW holders can hold it as a second artefact and use chiefs to switch between the scout and the architects when they see incomings with heroes.


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  • You hold the unique. What you got, 3 villages with 20k scouts each?
    No alliance can realistically stop you getting every single troops count they have by double scouting wheat drops. It's toooooo easy.


    Even if scouts that were reinforcements from a scout arti village kept their bonus to make it a bit trickier or something

    Just like it's too easy for a wwk to knock down a WW even though their whole army dies... I have specialised in one aspect of the game for that server, in exactly the same way as WWk/WWR or anvil may specialise. Why don't I get a scout report if all my scouts die? Yet WWK can destroy a WW if they all die? I don't get why people are so focused on scouting. Maybe with smaller server numbers the way catas work need changed, since WWKs can still be the same size as they always were, but there are fewer defenders now to protect WWs, that's a bigger issue than scouts imo. I'm not saying tweaks wouldn't make it more interesting, such as increasing defence of teut scouts and the watchtower idea is also a good one, but overall the way scouting works and the tribes scouting attributes work just as well as any other aspect of the game

  • Just like it's too easy for a wwk to knock down a WW even though their whole army dies


    Why don't I get a scout report if all my scouts die?

    Because the WWK doesn't need to come back home to fire 20,000 catapults at a building, but the scouts do need to come back home to give you the report.


    That said I think scouting is fine really, if you're a hammer it's easy not to get scouted, just don't leave army at home. When you have high def stacked on your village it's almost impossible not to get scouted without an arte, and that's fair.

  • I don't get why people are so focused on scouting.

    It wasn't my intention for scouting to take up so much discussion, I think in terms of all the things that needs work, it is low to medium priority. (Maybe 2 on a 5 point scale, 5 being highest). And of course not everyone agrees, which is part of the beauty of the game, lots of different people with different play styles and ideas. I've got a document with dozens of different topics I think need to be addressed, and have slowly been trying to fill in possible improvements / changes for those topics. So I do know there is much more to be done and discussed.


    I do enjoy discussing the nuts and bolts and possible alterations regardless of the topic. So its easy for me to go on and on and on.


    It would be good if there was a way to help focus discussion, as well as juggle multiple topics in an easier fashion. As well as take a raw idea and refine it into a solid and definitive proposal. And of course record actual votes for or against such a proposal. The current landscape doesn't quite do that, but who knows what the future might hold. In the meantime we just do the best we can.

  • 50-70K

    and if opposite side prepared well I would lose half of that count or even more


    So with 10x scouts that is the equivalent of losing 350k scouts in one scout attempt?


    Please provide me that report, in the meantime I will just sit here laughing away.



    Just like it's too easy for a wwk to knock down a WW even though their whole army dies... I have specialised in one aspect of the game for that server, in exactly the same way as WWk/WWR or anvil may specialise. Why don't I get a scout report if all my scouts die? Yet WWK can destroy a WW if they all die? I don't get why people are so focused on scouting. Maybe with smaller server numbers the way catas work need changed, since WWKs can still be the same size as they always were, but there are fewer defenders now to protect WWs, that's a bigger issue than scouts imo. I'm not saying tweaks wouldn't make it more interesting, such as increasing defence of teut scouts and the watchtower idea is also a good one, but overall the way scouting works and the tribes scouting attributes work just as well as any other aspect of the game


    Are you actually comparing the trials and tribulations of building 20k scouts to a 400k+ hammer?


    Scouting is too easy, I cannot remember the last time there was a server where every alliance didn't know every end game hammer simply because they've put the hawk eyes to good use.

  • So with 10x scouts that is the equivalent of losing 350k scouts in one scout attempt?


    Please provide me that report, in the meantime I will just sit here laughing away.

    I have never said a single report.


    When a defcor sees first signs of the rival alliance operation, scouts will be sent to known hammers aiming to land shortly before expected send time to potential targets or with intervals in hope to see a hammer home before it was sent. Several potential targets means several targeted times for several hammers. Single crop scouting will not do much as the hammer will be walking somewhere all the time. Sim above as a sample will allow to send 5 times on 2 hammer villages which even with ideal execution will not guarantee desirable result and will cost half of 50K scouting army.

  • Because the WWK doesn't need to come back home to fire 20,000 catapults at a building, but the scouts do need to come back home to give you the report.
    That said I think scouting is fine really, if you're a hammer it's easy not to get scouted, just don't leave army at home. When you have high def stacked on your village it's almost impossible not to get scouted without an arte, and that's fair.

    Not as easy as that. Most hammers are dedicated raiders. And some do raid with the wwk or wwr. I remember raiding while building the WW and still being in the top 10.

    Yes, I've built my fair share of WWs. Won a few, lost a few. Played far too many rounds for far too long. Made a lot friends and enemies.


    Yes, I've played as an anvil and as a hammer. I'm only playing now because of all the friendship I have built over the past ten years. I love Travian but I love the community even more.


    Envy me for I have everything, Fear me for I have nothing to lose.