Travian Platinum Club (RE: Battling the Bots)

  • Hey Folks,


    First off -- a little background about me. I started playing in 2007. I was someone’s farm for two or three servers -- and then I learned the old school strategy of building 200 maces, pushing settlement, and then raiding out of a 15c. That was back in the days of no farm lists. Before farm lists came out, I won top robber medals with all three tribes playing solo or working on large dual teams. It was fun; however, I was also in college with a lot of free time.


    Coincidentally, as college picked up for me in the second half of my four years, T3.5 came out (which introduced “farm lists). These lists weren’t like the lists we have today -- it was more of a list of hyperlinks that gave a little information on your raid history on that village. There was certainly no “raid all function.” But it certainly saved a TON of time, and it made me able to play the game a little better.


    Even more fortunately, just as I was finishing college T4 and the real farm lists came out. This changed a lot -- now it took much less time to raid as long as you were around to send the units out. I know some old school players that still think farm lists are “broken” or “too easy” -- but honestly who in the heck wants to sit around and click links all day and NOT use the farm list?


    This year, the test server came up and I happened to stumble upon a Travian bot. I wasn’t looking for it -- I came across it in a forum. I had never used a bot before, but the idea of using one on a test server sounded innocent enough. I still had to make a farm list and do all the normal things, but the bot sent the farms out every half hour for me. All it did was save me time.


    After using the bot for a couple of weeks, I learned a few things that I think TG should consider:


    • When I played with the bot, I found myself dedicating much more time to the strategic aspects of the game. I heavily scouted enemies, picked fights with my hero, and searched the marketplace for profitable trades. Why? I had more time and I wasn’t burnt out on clicking a farm list every half hour of my life. What do we want to reward people for in this game? Clicks and activity or strategy and skill?
    • When I played with the bot, I didn’t need duals to survive. The only reason I’ve ever needed a dual was for raiding activity. With the bot, I still had to spend my resources and find farms -- but I didn’t have to mindlessly sit around to hit “raid all” over and over again until my brain goes numb.
    • Fewer duals means more gold accounts per player. If me and 4 buddies pile onto an account, we only need to pay for plus and resource bonuses once a week (versus 5x a week if we all played solo). More accounts would be spending gold.
    • Fewer duals means more accounts per server. If me and my 4 buddies can now all raid 24/7 as solo players, then we’d be fools to not each play our own account. Yes, not every account on a server is piling 5 players into it as duals; but certainly the top 10 percent of every server is made up of mostly dual teams.
    • If anyone anywhere can raid 24/7 then the disparity between the top 1 percent of the server and the top 10 percent of the server is much smaller. Servers would be more competitive if the Hun account with 5 duals wasn’t running the show simply because their account logged in more times in a day.
    • If anyone anywhere can raid 24/7, then playing anvil is much more fun. Playing anvil is known for being boring in the beginning of a server -- mostly because it’s impossible to have an anvil early in the game. Those players tend to sim production until mid game. Well, pure anvil accounts can raid hundreds of thousands of resources a week using only slaves, ash wardens, phalanx, legionnaires, or spearmen. I know this because I did it with the bot (part of the reason I used the bot was to see if it was possible to do it with only defensive units).


    Without using a bot, my knee-jerk reaction to this would be “That’ll ruin the game.” Makes sense. But just remember back in the t3 days when all you had were raid reports. There weren’t even trade routes back in those days. Players had to manually send shipments to WW’s -- but the natural progression has come to value strategy and skill over monotonous activity. This will also kill the use of bots completely (because what would you use one for after this?). Cheating will always occur, but this kills a lot of cheating by leveling the playing field for the least active player.


    So I propose the creation of Travian Platinum Club. Since I’ve played this game I went from high schooler with too much time and very little cash to gaining two degrees and a bunch of cash and losing all my time. Maybe for 50 or 100 more gold each month my game experience would be improved significantly, the servers would be more populated and more competitive, and I can focus each of my logins on battle strategy and scouting reports rather than clicking. Perhaps a good way to keep this in check would be to structure it similar to auto-dodge (another in game script/bot that is awesome), and only allow the auto-raiding to come out of the capitol.


    Trade routes go out every hour on the hour. Why can’t my farm list?

  • Hi all. This is quite controversial suggestion that appeared on forum several times and was ultimately declined by the team. But I would like to put it on discussion.


    Automated farm (not with a bot, but as a feature) - would it bring any good to the game and to the players (all players, not only those who farm with bot)? What would others say for that?

    Ameno.png
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  • It would be a huge addition. Many players might argue that it might take the skill out of the game, but a lot of skill was already gone when they decided to make automated trade routes.


    As the OP says, if trade routes can go every hour, why can't the farm lists?


    I will further justify this by saying that Travian is a time intensive game and the players are humans with lives in the real world. So people cannot game whenever they want. Yes, even if you dual it is hard. This will let people do more than just send farm lists every 10 minutes. The time lost for this can be devoted to other features of this game that is rarely used. Like strategizing, and efficient building and so on.

    Yes, I've built my fair share of WWs. Won a few, lost a few. Played far too many rounds for far too long. Made a lot friends and enemies.


    Yes, I've played as an anvil and as a hammer. I'm only playing now because of all the friendship I have built over the past ten years. I love Travian but I love the community even more.


    Envy me for I have everything, Fear me for I have nothing to lose.

  • I don't like it. Not really in the mood for writing a large amount on it right now, so I'll just leave one point:


    Gold users are currently at a huge advantage. Both gold users compared to non-gold users, and heavy gold users compared to players with smaller budgets.


    Raiding is one parameter where you can compete without being disadvantaged by gold usage (once you've activated gold club, which can be done just by selling some early items on the AH).


    I know some people will argue that some of the heaviest gold users are also spending a lot of time raiding... But there are also plenty of people who would rather just gold and sim, who have a huge advantage compared to non-gold spenders... Which can at least partially be challenged if the players spending less gold can instead raid more than the pure simmers, if they spend the time.



    I also don't see anything wrong in rewarding time and dedication spent on the game - I'd rather have that being rewarded, than who has the biggest wallet.

  • I think it’s a marvellous idea.


    Sure farm spiking will go nuts, sure heavy active raiders who don’t have jobs and families and just click send farm list all day will complain they are losing their advantage, sure the people using bots currently will be outraged at it but still, I think it’s a brilliant idea.


    As the OP says, so many people dual only because of raiding, it’s a great way to increase server numbers without actually finding new players.


    If it is cap only it will also add a whole new ability to catch capital troops at home much easier which I like too.


    A++, lets get it up and running on legends for mid October servers please

  • Thanks for your feedback everyone. Few points of rebuttal...


    To the person that said it provides an unfair gold advantage, I would challenge you to search among your friends in Travian. Find me the dedicated, active player that doesn't use gold club, production bonus, and plus. Pretty hard to do. That's the thing about policy changes -- you can't please everyone, but most of us that are dedicated to this game do spend a little gold -- just not as much as the gold whales.


    Do remember that spiking won't be an issue in Travian anymore if they maintain the new change that you cannot reinforce a non-allied player (how is everyone enjoying the no spike environment in Pandora right now?).


    Hey wishmaster, this would not be "spend 100 gold daily to have you farms go out nonstop." It would entail a similar system to gold club. Also, I'm not judging anyone, but shouldn't people who don't have the money to get gold club, but have the time to play 50 hours a week for raiding should look for a second job? Just saying... Those people don't really exist. Maybe one dude who is bedridden or something; but for the most part, that's an imaginary demographic you have in mind.


    I just want to remind everyone: if this happens, you'll spend no time farming -- and all your time hunting farms, politicking in chat rooms, and engaging in the fun parts of Travian. That's all I'm trying to get at. Don't you have all this other RL stuff going on, but years of Travian experience and knowledge that you still want to use? Show some support and lets make a change.

  • To the person that said it provides an unfair gold advantage, I would challenge you to search among your friends in Travian. Find me the dedicated, active player that doesn't use gold club, production bonus, and plus. Pretty hard to do. That's the thing about policy changes -- you can't please everyone, but most of us that are dedicated to this game do spend a little gold -- just not as much as the gold whales.

    I think you base the assumption on US domain players base. I know quite a few. Hint: countries have different income level.


    If such feature to be added it should not require any extra gold.


    I agree that raiding is tiring, boring but extremely productive game strategy. Not sure why time some people are willing to put in game should not be rewarded. I guess I would agree an hourly runs maybe so players who still willing to put time in still get advantage but decent level of income can be generated by more "intelligent" tasks aka creating and maintaining proper farm list.

  • I think you base the assumption on US domain players base. I know quite a few. Hint: countries have different income level.
    If such feature to be added it should not require any extra gold.


    Domains where the majority of players don’t spend gold?


    Where? I’m going to go and play there

  • Crunch, my English is far from perfect but I know the difference between "majority" and "they don't exist". Do you?

    The post was edited 1 time, last by ELE ().

  • Yeah I was being serious. I think it's silly that people actually believe you should reward someone for mindlessly clicking a box every hour. That's insane and makes no sense. "Here come play this game. The way you really get ahead is not by being smarter or having more discipline in how you spend resources. No sir! This is all about clicking a box to get ahead. How fast can you do it and how often?" Sounds like the game Farmville...


    We should aim to reward the person with the best raid list, not the person that clicks the list the most consistently.


    And the vast majority of this game's income comes from the gold spending servers. Travian is not a charity -- it is a business. Without viable income, none of us get to play. So I don't really care very much about the habits of the light gold domains because they don't determine whether or not this game continues to be available to play.

  • Hey wishmaster, this would not be "spend 100 gold daily to have you farms go out nonstop." It would entail a similar system to gold club.

    You completely missed or ignored my point. The point was that activity is a parameter where people who can't buy much gold can get an advantage over people who spend a lot of gold, but aren't willing to be as active/raid. If you automate raiding, you'll make the ability to drop a ton of gold even more impactful than it already is.



    To the person that said it provides an unfair gold advantage, I would challenge you to search among your friends in Travian. Find me the dedicated, active player that doesn't use gold club, production bonus, and plus. Pretty hard to do. That's the thing about policy changes -- you can't please everyone, but most of us that are dedicated to this game do spend a little gold -- just not as much as the gold whales.

    There's a darn big difference between having a limited budget where you only run plus and production bonusses, and the heavy gold spenders who will gold up new villages 200 pop at a time, and spend 500k silver on buying artworks. Which leads exactly back to my point - those with smaller budgets can make up for some of it with activity.


    Also, I'm not judging anyone, but shouldn't people who don't have the money to get gold club, but have the time to play 50 hours a week for raiding should look for a second job? Just saying... Those people don't really exist.

    That's just completely ignorant. As ELE pointed out, different countries have different income levels. As an example, I know that many Balkan/Eastern European players spend little or no money on the game, simply because it's too expensive compared to wage levels. Also, did you hear of students? Or kids? Or maybe heard of duals who both have a limited gold budget, but together have enough time to play many hours?


    I never said anything about people not even spending gold to get gold club too.


    but for the most part, that's an imaginary demographic you have in mind.

    Nah.




    All that said... Maybe I wouldn't be strongly against a limited usage feature - as ELE suggested, maybe sending once every hour (or perhaps even less frequently). But definitely not if it completely automated all raiding.




    And the vast majority of this game's income comes from the gold spending servers. Travian is not a charity -- it is a business. Without viable income, none of us get to play. So I don't really care very much about the habits of the light gold domains because they don't determine whether or not this game continues to be available to play.

    Enjoy your servers with only 100 active players by the endgame...

  • Some interesting points on both sides and I like the concept (not just saying that). Clearly a lot of thought has gone into the idea and how it could be delivered. I agree that automation has its place and I personally couldn't imagine playing Travian without the various automations we have now, but I do think that when automation is introduced it should come with limitations. I don't entirely think the feature could be compared to trade routes since the movement of resource has limitations hard coded into the game. I will admit there are some similarities though, since the feature is paid-for.


    Even if the feature suggested by the OP were free, it would heavily benefit only those who raid. If a price tag is then attached to it, it reduces the pool even further creating the potential for an even bigger disparity between those with higher / lower levels of experience. Personally I would never raid with spears unless I was very confident I wouldn't lose any (regardless of potential return). Raiding with paladins I do sometimes, though it stifles the ability to respond to defence calls quickly if defence is out raiding. On that basis I'm not convinced it's a good idea for defenders.


    Naturally, there will always be paid-for features in a free game since it needs to cover costs somehow. My personal opinion though is that this would be one too many.

    "It’s only when the tide goes out that you see who was swimming naked."


    #MakeTravianGreatAgain #MTGA

  • Even if the feature suggested by the OP were free, it would heavily benefit only those who raid.

    I am not sure about this. Many don't raid because it is extremely time consuming. Creating and maintaining a farm list to utilize is for 3 hours when I have completely free does not worth the effort (numbers are random) but if the same list will go out a few more times a day I may consider it. So yes, it will benefit raiders generally but more people will join the group.


    I think it's silly that people actually believe you should reward someone for mindlessly clicking a box every hour. That's insane and makes no sense.

    And what gives you right to decide for other people? You think it is silly? Don't to it. One hour frequency is nothing.



    And the vast majority of this game's income comes from the gold spending servers. Travian is not a charity -- it is a business. Without viable income, none of us get to play. So I don't really care very much about the habits of the light gold domains because they don't determine whether or not this game continues to be available to play.

    Exactly because TG is a business I would assume these domains are still at least paying for themselves. In any case, no one wants play on 100 players server and surprise! there are not enough people who wants to spend or can spend significant amount of money to stay competitive. Adding new gold features resulting in some low gold users leaving, resulting in low server population, resulting in gold whales being bored and leaving as well. Business is a bit more complicated when you described.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by ELE ().

  • Please tell me who sends their farm list every hour? You might as well not send because you usually wont find anything. In 1x server sending every 30 mins I can understand ... Not ideal .. but I can understand if it is someone who is not heavily invested in raiding.


    Most people send their lists every 5, 10 or 15mins ... They are the ones who are actually benefiting from raiding.

    Yes, I've built my fair share of WWs. Won a few, lost a few. Played far too many rounds for far too long. Made a lot friends and enemies.


    Yes, I've played as an anvil and as a hammer. I'm only playing now because of all the friendship I have built over the past ten years. I love Travian but I love the community even more.


    Envy me for I have everything, Fear me for I have nothing to lose.

  • I actually like this idea.


    I can't even recall the countless times I've had farm lists ready and made up, using them and raiding well for a few days, working out that it may be possible to break into the top 10 next week if I keep this up and then bam, some unforseen circumstances mean I'm not able to spend as much time on the game any more, maybe a dual leaves, something happens in IRL e.t.c...


    What does that leave me with, a very good farm list, which I spent a fair amount of time setting up, just sitting there rotting away, simply cos I can't send it out enough or at all in some cases. How unfortunate, all that time and effort gone to waste...