Merged Server Start Times

  • Can we take a minute to discuss this? Who picked the start time for the new servers? Did someone just say, "Screw the Americans!!!" 2 AM to 5 AM? Are you serious?


    Can we pick a different time? 11pm UK time works swimmingly. That would be:


    23:00 UK
    15:00 to 18:00 US
    08:00 AU


    The most important thing about this, as you know, is that it also determines arti drop times. US alliances will have a REAL hard time being competitive with so many players unable to be on for arti drops.


    This time seems fair for everyone, as all nations should be awake then. Would love to hear any other feedback as well, thanks.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Armour ().

  • Sure doesn't seem well planned. Between all the Muricans and crazy Canucks, a large percentage will be starting servers at a disadvantage. Even going 1 hour earlier than what Armour proposed would work well.

  • You have a fair point in that regard but it is hard to pick a time where someone isn't negatively impacted.


    US has 5 time zones. AU has 4? Its really hard to balance all of those. If it was up to me all servers globally would start at UTC+0 00:00 and on a Sunday into Monday regardless of the domain so I'm not overly sympathetic to finagling with the time to try and accommodate everyone.


    That said it seems like something that might be negotiable.


    I DO think server times should be locked to UTC+0 and not fluctuate with summer/daylight savings time. Every country has different start dates and it would be easier for everyone to only need to adjust themselves locally, rather than adjusting based on the server change and then AGAIN locally a few weeks later (or before).


    US DST = March 11 - November 4
    UK DST = March 25 - October 28
    AU DST = April 1 - Oct 7


    US / AU also have exceptions to DST.


    It would simplify things for players if server time stuck to Universal Coordinated Time. (I advocate this for all domains, not just the new English one)

  • US has three that matter. I've yet to meet a Hawaiian or Alaskan player :p


    We can't lock it to a universal time because the arti drop is important. Start times should always be chosen to make the arti drop as fair as possible. Clearly someone picked the current time, I'd just love to ask them to pick a more fair one. Like, I don't see any advantage to the current one, unless I'm seriously missing something.


    Can someone like @Ameno let us know why this time was chosen? Or if it's flexible at all? I can't imagine anyone objecting to these changes since, again, it moves the arti drop to a reasonable time for everyone.

  • Well, I didn't pay attention to that so I didn't complain. Also, there's no arti drop on those servers, right? So it doesn't really matter.


    I highly doubt West Coast US players would have good attendance at 3AM if that were needed on an arti drop.

  • Actually a great amount of thought and discussion went into the PtP Start Times. People in multiple time zones and domains were questioned. From the UK point of view, many people didn't want to start at 11 PM, play for an hour and then go to bed and have to get up for work. Americans didn't want to be either commuting to work or in work when servers start and artifacts drop. Same for Australians. We actually aimed for UK lunch hour to try to give it some balance.


    Overall, there is no such thing as something close to ideal for players across all those time zones. From the west coast of US people I talked to, they preferred to set alarms to get up early to go after artifacts rather than try to use their phones from work or in the car when commuting.


    PtP start times were set at 7 am Eastern.


    There are still some ongoing discussions regarding future game world start times. I'm open to thoughts and ideas from players across all the time zones, but please try to consider all the factors.


    ~feanor

    Some know me as feanor (~f) Others as The Old Wolf. (~tow) but no matter what, there's always a moment you know.

  • From the UK point of view, many people didn't want to start at 11 PM, play for an hour and then go to bed and have to get up for work.

    For early game, you can get the important stuff done in an hour. For artis, all you do is send and log off. I really am getting the feeling this was a "screw the US, we're just gonna do optimal times for UK and AU players so we don't have to do finicky compromise." I know that likely wasn't the goal, but this explanation does little to assuage that sentiment.


    Like, seriously. This is kind of insulting when you're asking, in the same breath, for me to stay up until 2, play for an hour, go to bed, and wake up at 5:30 for work.



    From the west coast of US people I talked to, they preferred to set alarms to get up early to go after artifacts rather than try to use their phones from work or in the car when commuting.

    Which west coast US players? I honestly am having a hard time imagining someone said "I'd rather wake up at 2AM than take a break to send artis." Seriously. My entire (US/Canada based) alliance was surprised by this start time, and after a discussion, 11pm UK was the optimal time we came up with. Every single one of those North American players I talked to preferred that time.



    PtP start times were set at 7 am Eastern.

    People likely didn't object because:


    A) Starting on time doesn't matter as much
    B) There's no arti drop, so start time isn't a very big deal



    I'm open to thoughts and ideas from players across all the time zones, but please try to consider all the factors.

    If you want my thoughts, it really feels like you all don't care about the US players. I know you probably are trying to come up with a solution to optimize to something, but times are being set permanently to be unplayable for US players. The way this is it just feels like you don't care. And that's how how you don't foster a growing community.


    I yet to see why the suggestion of 11PM UK is unacceptable. It's equally mildly inconvenient for everyone, rather than convenient for one group, mildly inconvenient for another, and unplayable for a third. At least keep it balanced.


    Edit:

    This game requires you to be up at 2-5am. Mine as well start getting use to it early

    Del, I think you of all people know I know that :D


    But for working people who aren't as committed to the game into the community, putting up a wall saying, "If you aren't awake at 3AM you literally have 0 chance" isn't a good way to introduce new players. And frankly, so boldly giving favor in time selection to one domain over another isn't a great look.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Armour ().

  • Sorry to double post, but I think this is a separate thought.


    The current times make it that:
    UK is in the middle of the work day
    US is 100% asleep
    AU gets a nice time


    My suggestion makes it so:
    UK is moderately late, but most people are definitely still awake
    US is in the middle of the workday
    AU gets a nice time


    So, either way, one domain is in the middle of the workday. It's just whether you want to make it so UK players have to stay up until 23:00:00 or US players until 02:00:00 or 05:00:00. I think that asking UK to stay up until a typical bedtime is a lot more reasonable than asking US to stay up until the literal middle of the night.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Armour ().

  • Get a euro dual. Problem solved.

    ..And that is the Final Word.


  • Yeah. It's impossible to cater to the needs of all three domain players. Someone somewhere is going to get the short end of the stick. Can't make everyone happy.

    Yes, I've built my fair share of WWs. Won a few, lost a few. Played far too many rounds for far too long. Made a lot friends and enemies.


    Yes, I've played as an anvil and as a hammer. I'm only playing now because of all the friendship I have built over the past ten years. I love Travian but I love the community even more.


    Envy me for I have everything, Fear me for I have nothing to lose.

  • Yeah. It's impossible to cater to the needs of all three domain players. Someone somewhere is going to get the short end of the stick. Can't make everyone happy.

    Explain to me who doesn't benefit from my suggested time? It seems to give no one the short end of the stick. AU keeps their awesome time. UK goes from slightly inconvenient to slightly inconvenient. US goes from awful to slightly inconvenient.

  • Which west coast US players? I honestly am having a hard time imagining someone said "I'd rather wake up at 2AM than take a break to send artis." Seriously. My entire (US/Canada based) alliance was surprised by this start time, and after a discussion, 11pm UK was the optimal time we came up with. Every single one of those North American players I talked to preferred that time.

    I honestly can't see how it's better in any way to have artefacts drop while people are at work/uni/school or w/e. I know that this will be the case for one group of the new domain no matter what though... But saying that this screws over US players, and it's because TG doesn't give a damn about US? lol


    Don't know how artefact drop is managed in teams you play in - but you can't have someone manage the artefact drop in a serious manner from phone/while they're at work and only have 10-15 minutes. Midday is bad for the planners. As for the hammers... If 20+ hammers are being planned + separate cata hubs + separate hero pickups... It takes quite a lot of time to get everything sent. This means that it's not just a question for the launchers about being online for 10 minutes then logging off. They can't know when they will get the order (could be up to an hour in my experience). So they'd have to keep an eye on their phone or w/e, and if they leave it unread for say, 30 minutes, it could mean enemies snatching artefacts instead, timing being off with the cata waves/hero pickup and so on.

  • A confusing but interesting approach would be to randomize the times for each server. It could either be entirely random (i.e pick a time out of a hat from the 24 hour clock) or random based on a pre-selected time options (i.e the original proposed times, Armours times etc.)


    Or there could be a rotation so that each server gets the next batch of pre-selected times so each of the 3 countries get their chance at optimal times.


    Frankly I don't like either of those options. As I said it is confusing but it does have some value in being "fair". Over the course of ~230 days, there are exactly 3 days in which you would need to be up at these times. Spawn, Arti Drop, Plan drop. I think its fairly reasonable to expect those who need to be present for those 3 days do so.


    I don't think that is unique to Travian and plenty of other MMO style games have events that require sacrifice as to when you need to be on. 3 days of reduced (or no) sleep over ~230 days seems fairly reasonable to me when those days are planned WAY in advance. (except spawn which we only get ~1 weeks notice for exact server # or ~4 weeks for a general start)


    It is a little more difficult for Speed players, but they are crazy anyway :love:

  • I honestly can't see how it's better in any way to have artefacts drop while people are at work/uni/school or w/e. I know that this will be the case for one group of the new domain no matter what though... But saying that this screws over US players, and it's because TG doesn't give a damn about US? lol
    Don't know how artefact drop is managed in teams you play in - but you can't have someone manage the artefact drop in a serious manner from phone/while they're at work and only have 10-15 minutes. Midday is bad for the planners. As for the hammers... If 20+ hammers are being planned + separate cata hubs + separate hero pickups... It takes quite a lot of time to get everything sent. This means that it's not just a question for the launchers about being online for 10 minutes then logging off. They can't know when they will get the order (could be up to an hour in my experience). So they'd have to keep an eye on their phone or w/e, and if they leave it unread for say, 30 minutes, it could mean enemies snatching artefacts instead, timing being off with the cata waves/hero pickup and so on.

    I'm not saying there's gonna be a perfect situation. But I am saying that the time I presented is slightly better. Either the US or UK has to send during work in both cases. In my suggestion, the one that doesn't sends at a reasonable time versus the literal dead of night. You either choose to mildly screw over both, or mildly screw over one and heavily screw over the other. So yes, I will say it screws over the US, and so far not a single non-US player seems to care. I don't understand how you couldn't say the suggested time isn't objectively better overall.


    Also, I've coordinated my last 4 arti drops. Coordinated pretty well I'll add. I know how artis drops work. Four people need to be on for an hour. Everyone else just needs a ping with their targets and times. Not everyone is gonna respond to pings as well at 4 in the morning.


    I don't understand why you're so against this. This really doesn't disadvantage anyone more than they already are. I just want to have a good reason why it can't be this way and so far I've yet to see anything of substance.



    I mean, yes, it's reasonable, but we all know that the alliances working at four in the morning won't have as good turn out. Not every player is a model alliance member. I'm not saying we need to remove sacrifice. I'm just asking why we're going out of our way to not pick the optimal time, and why the time has to only impact one on the merged domains. If we're just gonna say that convenience shouldn't matter, let's do 06:00:00 UK time. That's too early for the UK, too late for the East coast US, and mid-workday AU. Or should we actually care about what works well for people?

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Armour ().

  • I mean, yes, it's reasonable, but we all know that the alliances working at four in the morning won't have as good turn out. Not every player is a model alliance member. I'm not saying we need to remove sacrifice. I'm just asking why we're going out of our way to not pick the optimal time, and why the time has to only impact one on the merged domains. If we're just gonna say that convenience shouldn't matter, let's do 06:00:00 UK time. That's too early for the UK, too late for the East coast US, and mid-workday AU. Or should we actually care about what works well for people?

    Inconvenience for everyone still makes it a level playing field.

    ..And that is the Final Word.