Balance changes discussion thread

  • They still haven't added the biggest feature that the travian community desperately needs.


    The Confed rule. (Can only send res and troops to ally members or confeds)


    Come on Travian .... This is getting ridiculous. That is the one change that was actually huge and impactful.

    Dead. Everyone's dead.


    As4 - Apocalypse

  • Decent changes IMO.


    Good that they nerfed Egyptians, not sure why they nerfed my favorite tribe the Huns’ Stepperider?


    Oud lid van: MAGNOX, IJsberen, BvB, Valkyrion

  • Decent changes IMO.


    Good that they nerfed Egyptians, not sure why they nerfed my favorite tribe the Huns’ Stepperider?

    Because they're overkill? They're still a bit extreme for the price you pay for them if you ask me.

    And they haven't nerfed Egyptians, they merely boosted other tribes slightly, the main issue regarding Egyptian accounts; the capital, still stands.

  • Decent changes IMO.


    Good that they nerfed Egyptians, not sure why they nerfed my favorite tribe the Huns’ Stepperider?


    You must be really biased to not understand that nerf. They are very overpowered, and they're still good even with that nerf.


    I agree with what Wolkenengel says, they actually didn't change anything about the Egyptians.

  • I'm not really sure what was the point of all of these changes, so, as is my style, let's go one by one:



    Unit changes: Some little tweaks, not a lot of impact (except stepperider nerf, haven't played with them so hard to say. Sounds big tho).


    Hero item changes: YES! No more pay to win! let's go TG!

    1. Earlier spawn for tier 2 and 3. Change of tier 2 isn't big but earlier tier 3 release may actually give those items a role. Could even buff the bonus on unit strength from 5/crop to 6/crop.

    2. Weapons/shield/armor changes not a big deal, change focus towards simming for most players. Looks like this early game nerf was made to compensate the reduced gold usage on artworks (point 4.) and force more usage on ointments and buckets. More focus on hero management means better advantage to those with skill. Good job.

    3. CP helmet endgame buff (800-> 1600) could have been bigger. Maybe 2400 would have been even better to make the helmet actually useful and encourage simming even in later stages of the game.

    4. One artwork per day. Biggest change of them all. End of pay to win really. Awesome change.


    Hero's resource production: Buff to compensate the reduced hero usage to clear and raid oases. Ok change, not a lot to say about it.


    Philosophy bonus & alliance bonus cost changes: Good stuff, it was useless before and now it can be of use.



    Now we come to the point where problems and stuff about this update begin. I'm going to change the order of changes and put them together since these buffs overlap each other and stack up...


    Commerce & Trade Office buff: With the combined two maxed out, teutons can send 250k resources per trip. For a NPC village for WW, that's 750k per trade route and 1M per hour if microed correctly. I don't see the point of this double buff since players will hit the pushing limit on accounts with NPC villages. Ofc this opens up the possibility to push WW village directly for huge amounts and raid the resources from there thru oases, but that is already happening. In my opinion this is unnecessary change and makes the endgame too simple and boring, gameplaywise.


    Brewery + Tounament Square buff: The most ridiculous and definitely not a change that was carefully thought through.

    1. Brewery buff up from 10% to 20% -> teutons become even more rammer oriented tribe. That would be fine if this was left there. But.

    2. TS buff up from 200% to 400%. From offensive perspective this just makes it easier to feed army while it is walking. Also makes raiding easier. For deffers, it makes armies faster when answering defense calls. Sounds good, right? Win-win?


    Nope. This change is terrible from defensive perspective and makes the game very stressful for DC, Def Coordinators. This is because;


    1. There's less time to react to attacks. (attacks would need to be reported 2x faster and DC would need to be online 2x more often to compensate this fully. Also less time to calculate and decide where and when to scout and so on)

    2. Defenders, who are going to send the defense, need to be 2x more active to respond in time.

    3. Praets :rom02: will never reach a def call from now on unless close to the defended target and very active to respond in time. (many romans will need to recall def from capital before sending so that slows them down even more. TS doesn't affect this walk of usually 1-5 squares)

    4. Hammer trains. In case of a hammer train to zero a village, these two changes stack up pretty badly. Teutons will be incredibly strong (100k axe army can kill 150k def now, straight up), and when we add the reduced reacting time for defenders, it get's quite bad. Given the usual balance, that teams tend to have more offensive players than defensive, any team that has players skilled/motivated enough to do a train can wipe the floor with their hammers because of comparatively low defense levels of the enemy.


    Personally, I would be fine with the brewery buff alone, or only a slight buff to TS (new cap of 250%, maybe even 300%). These two major buffs together is an unhealthy combo (literally, for the DC it means 10 hours of travian/day, without breaks). I don't think an update that makes strongest teams able to face roll weaker opponents a change towards better community, no?

    Zioe | WILD | com1 2013

    The Stranger | GOATS | com1 2014

    SuperAidMinion | WILD | com5 2014

    OswaldCobblepot | SGR | com1 2016-2017

    Random Variable | SGR | com1 2018 + many other servers


    aka. Valt

    Post was edited 1 time, last by Yowie: Removed filter evasion. ().

  • Hi guys,


    Please refrain to use any racists comments, I deleted some of your posts. This thread is for feedback and discussion of the new balancing changes.


    Regards

    Huma

    ridder_huma_sig.png


    Members of the Travian Team works on a voluntary basis and are therefore not available 24 hours a day.

  • Items Tier 1 Tier 2 Tier 3


    Spawn day *

    70 (instead of 75)


    140 (instead of 165)


    * The change will be implemented only on Classic (not Annual Special) version

    Why is that?


    Travian will mess up with it's codes once again and create alot of bugs in the finals tournament servers. Please don't make me cry.

    The changes are announced for new servers. Current tournament will not be affected.

  • Hi there. I'll reply to Tournament Square adjustment.


    100 fields distance, catapults speed, TS lvl 20 normal and double effect would give the following time on 1x server:

    Travel time before - 15:33:20

    Travel time now - 12:00:00

    Praetoreans

    9:20 before and 7:12 now respectively for the same distance.


    I am not sure this can be described as "twice" or "impossible for praetoreans to reach the defended village". Yes, troop speed will be faster, but not THAT fast as you think.


    Other comments:

    Tournament finals started before 01.01.2019 - those changes won't be there or on any live gameworld that started before that date.

    Brewery - well, during the whole round when I actively played with Teutons (COM29) I enabled brewery only once. Yes, it will increase Teuton power, but I would still like to see that in action. Probably (and even most likely) it will encourage more players to choose Teuton tribe, but other than that I don't see it as a really huge change so far.

    Resheph and Caesaris requirements were made to align them with the other tribes (Teutons, Gauls and Huns heavy cavalry have the same requirements already).

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  • Why is that?

    Because the spawn dates are already adjusted on Annual special servers and they are even less than 70 and 140 respectively.

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  • Teutons were OP before the change, now they will be even more OP. Maybe for solo play it doesn't have much impact, but when you are making mass attacks to zero pop enemies capitals/non cap hammer villas it gives enormous boost for cleaners and since you are going for zero, who cares which target you should chose. Now with 20% bonus, it would have even bigger impact. Not mentioning that teutons are the best off/time producing tribe overall as well. Unfortunately I don't have enough time to get into more details, so I will leave it at that.

    You know the old joke, Eiaiestyi? Man shows up at the Pearly Gates, sees this guy in a pin stripe suit, and a briefcase, a cigar, prancing about. He says to Saint Peter, 'who's that guy?' Saint Peter says 'ahhh, that's just God. Thinks he's Jofke.'

  • Because the spawn dates are already adjusted on Annual special servers and they are even less than 70 and 140 respectively.

    Tier 2 items on anglosphere PtP were released recently and we are on day 86.....

  • Tier 2 items on anglosphere PtP were released recently and we are on day 86.....


    Closed beta day 132 (give or take) and tier3 items are already a while there. I'd say it's a bug (I mean that tier 2 items are that late on Anglosphere PtP). Should be fixed in the nearest update.

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  • Those are not realistic travel times for most cases on basic legends server where attacks are launched cross-quad. Usually most targets are within range of ~100-220 and praets walk only 30-80sq so let's play a few simulations.


    Catas:

    Range Time old Time new
    100sq 15:33:20 12:00:00
    150sq 21:06:40 15:20:00
    200sq 26:40:00 18:40:00


    Some basic travel distances for praets (not my main point anyway but let's make a point of it too. The same can be converted to all races and issue is closely related to reduced time for making def calls):


    Range Time old Time new
    30 4:40:00 4:24:00
    50 6:00:00 5:12:00
    80 8:00:00 6:24:00
    100 9:20:00 7:12:00

    This is still not realistic because who builds TS20 for praets? I've seen a couple of those for capital and some 18s in 2nd larges def village but usually those don't go above level 15.


    Let's start with the absolute numbers and make a few scenarios out of it before adding all the other variables in.


    1. OLD:

    Catas travel 150sq, praets 50sq: 21:06:40-6:00:00 = 15:06 hours to react.

    NEW: 15:20:00-5:12:00 = 10:06 hours to react.


    2. OLD:

    Catas travel 200sq, praets 80sq: 26:40:00-8:00:00 = 18:40 hours to react.

    NEW: 18:40:00-6:24:00 = 12:16 hours to reach.


    3. OLD:

    Catas travel 100sq, praets 30sq: 15:33:20-4:40:00 = 10:56 hours to react.

    NEW: 12:00:00-4:24:00 = 7:36 hours to react.


    4. OLD:

    Catas travel 100sq, praets 50sq: 15:33:20-6:00:00 = 9:33 hours to react

    NEW: 12:00:00-5:12:00 = 6:48 hours to react


    In short on paper, the defender has 25-35% less time by absolute measures to send the defenses.



    Now, let's add in some human behavior and DC strategies.


    1. it takes X hours for attacks to be reported to DC

    2. it takes Y hours for DC himself to read the notice

    3. it takes Z hours for the defender to read the defensive orders given to him

    4. DC requires information on the attacker, in other words scouts are required. Scouts require 2:15-3:30 to travel for 100-200sq.

    5. Scouters takes Q hours to send the scouts


    So, 5 variables which won't change. Let's give some values.


    1. Top raiders usually report within 30 minutes or an hour. For regular accounts, it may take several hours. So let's say it takes 1:30 hours on average.

    2. For the first attacks it may take up to two hours for DC team to read if DC team is well set up. A LOT more for weaker teams. Additional attacks will be registered almost instantly. So 0:20 for established teams and 2 hours for new teams.

    3. We can distributes defenders to two brackets; experienced and not-so-experienced. Active leadership usually has good sitter system set up for top defensive accounts which are quite active anyway, but weaker deffers are usually on their own and sitters are not so active either. So, 0:40 for experienced and 2:30 for not so experienced.

    4. Values given above

    5. Scouter accounts are often under DC's sitter access but not everyone of DC team is always online, nor the scouter himself. 0:30 for the scouter.


    These are average times which are quite common in DC practice. Most of it is based on what I've dealt with on current com1 on SGR's side. If someone has critique on these, spit it out.


    We can just sum up the values and we're dealing with about 3-6 hours of human laziness. On top of that, we must add the time which scouts take to land and the time required to calculate optimal scouting times and the extra delay required to send the scout (advanced level stuff related to hammer trains which is my biggest fear/critique on this update, I can explain more if someone wants to hear). With the additions, we're looking at 5-9 hours of time that is required, on average, between the attack launch and defense sending time.



    Now that I explained the DC behavior, let's see what the OC is up to:

    1. OC chooses landing time based on his team's online times, strengths and abilities (boots artifacts, armies close to enemies etc. - fast armies that defender has little time to react to)

    2. OC wants to time attacks so that defenders have little time to react. In other words, land in the morning around 10am so that the defenders are still sleeping when they should send defenses around.


    These two points combined, the previously stated old average time for sending defense (5-9 hours) is not valid anymore. The new real delay is somewhere around the previously stated, plus 3-5 hours due to OC's "strategy" changes (nothing really changed, we still have the same night times). Due to this, the defender has no way to defend against the fastest hammers, which may be sent during the night. Even tho we have "around the clock" activity on international servers, american duals, as well as east asian duals, are always high in demand. This means that there's often very little activity during the hours 00-04 when europe/asia is sleeping. Attacks sent around this time would be close to impossible to defend if the range is below 100 squares (imagine a hammer in grey zone..)



    Now we can put these two together. I won't take in count the fact that hammers will be sent late in the evening/during the night here. Those are nearly impossible to defend if part of a bigger operation, at least in my book.


    1. OLD:

    Catas travel 150sq, praets 50sq: 15:06 hours to react. With the old required time of 5-9 hours, can be defended easily

    NEW: 10:06 hours to react. With new times of up to ~13 hours, defending may be hard


    2. OLD:

    Catas travel 200sq, praets 80sq: 18:40 hours to react. With the old required time of 5-9 hours, can be defended easily

    NEW: 18:40:00-6:24:00 = 12:16 hours to reach. With new times of up to ~13 hours, can be usually defended


    3. OLD:

    Catas travel 100sq, praets 30sq: 10:56 hours to react.With the old required time of 5-9 hours, can be usually defended

    NEW: 12:00:00-4:24:00 = 7:36 hours to react. With new times of up to ~13 hours, defending is close to impossible


    4. OLD:

    Catas travel 100sq, praets 50sq: 9:33 hours to react. With the old required time of 5-9 hours, defending is hard

    NEW: 12:00:00-5:12:00 = 6:48 hours to react. With new times of up to ~13 hours, as well as old times, defending is close to impossible



    TL;DR: You're wrong, this is huge :P idk how I wrote this much :D

    Zioe | WILD | com1 2013

    The Stranger | GOATS | com1 2014

    SuperAidMinion | WILD | com5 2014

    OswaldCobblepot | SGR | com1 2016-2017

    Random Variable | SGR | com1 2018 + many other servers


    aka. Valt

  • Teutons were OP before the change, now they will be even more OP. Maybe for solo play it doesn't have much impact, but when you are making mass attacks to zero pop enemies capitals/non cap hammer villas it gives enormous boost for cleaners and since you are going for zero, who cares which target you should chose. Now with 20% bonus, it would have even bigger impact. Not mentioning that teutons are the best off/time producing tribe overall as well. Unfortunately I don't have enough time to get into more details, so I will leave it at that.

    My above explanation is strongly related to his point, from DC perspective. Those who do or play against hammer trains know how hard it is to figure out the real target and get enough defense there.


    My concern is that we will only see more servers where there is one team that dominates the whole server. Preparations required to wall it off are immense and the reduced travel time of those armies make it close to impossible to figure out the real. This TS buff makes all the DC strategies used to counter this style impossible to use due to reduced time to implement them. Complicated stuff, yes, but I can tell more about it and explain why I strongly believe this TS buff needs to be revoked. I can live with brewery buff, but TS buff makes hammer trains a brain dead road to victory when defender has no way to figure out the real target, other than guessing.

    Zioe | WILD | com1 2013

    The Stranger | GOATS | com1 2014

    SuperAidMinion | WILD | com5 2014

    OswaldCobblepot | SGR | com1 2016-2017

    Random Variable | SGR | com1 2018 + many other servers


    aka. Valt

  • Nice message and I get your point, but the fact that battle would be a bit more intense is not 100% bad thing, still (Note: that's my personal opinion of an experienced player and a def-coordinator). New values probably would require some new tactics, more close cluster settling especially for Roman defenders (Gauls and Teutons will have less issues since their units are way faster than Roman praetoreans) and probably a bit more focus on cavalry defence, but still this is all a case of adjustments.

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  • Nice message and I get your point, but the fact that battle would be a bit more intense is not 100% bad thing, still (Note: that's my personal opinion of an experienced player and a def-coordinator). New values probably would require some new tactics, more close cluster settling especially for Roman defenders (Gauls and Teutons will have less issues since their units are way faster than Roman praetoreans) and probably a bit more focus on cavalry defence, but still this is all a case of adjustments.

    No. The battle would not be more intense, there would be no battle at all. The main point is that the DC has not enough time to make fully informed decisions. This will lead to many incorrect defense calls and in the case of hammer trains, almost always wrong calls. This will just tilt the game towards "shoot everything that moves" when enemy can't properly retaliate. I find it stupid that in the game careful planning and exact strategies, defensive strategies are totally neglected for the purpose of faster hammers.


    And to think there would be more skirmish with this TS buff is just wrong. There are so many accounts, every server (mainly not so experienced), who sim a (mediocre) hammer till endgame and use it without good purpose. I can't see how this change would encourage more offensive operations from the teams when the problem is not the speed of the armies but rather OC motivation and limited time to use in the game and so on.

    Zioe | WILD | com1 2013

    The Stranger | GOATS | com1 2014

    SuperAidMinion | WILD | com5 2014

    OswaldCobblepot | SGR | com1 2016-2017

    Random Variable | SGR | com1 2018 + many other servers


    aka. Valt

  • I'm more annoyed with the following:


    Players complain about Egypt OP oasis --> TG does nothing.

    Players complain about Egypt hero res OP --> TG still makes Egypt the best settling tribe in early game.

    Players complain about Gaul special building getting screwed ---> TG does nothing for Gauls, but hey let's beef up Teut special building power more and shaft the Huns best unit.

    ..And that is the Final Word.

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