[LoT '19] Phase 1: Exploring the Issues & Ideas

  • Hello Hello.


    I am BlackBlade, more often called BB. I'm representing the Anglosphere in Munich for the 2019 Legends on Tour Summit. I'll be spending a lot of time over the next two months gathering information in preparation. I want to start by asking the community as to what the view as issues facing the game, forum and community. Once some of that is worked out, then we can start looking into solutions.


    These should be things TG has power over, it may be in a direct manner like fixing code or may be indirect like changing stats of a unit to try and change gameplay. Please be as detailed as you can. I will also be setting something up to allow people to anonymously send feedback / for those who don't use forum accounts and/or use it. You can also reach me on Skype, which is listed in my profile here on the forum. I may also create a section on the Unofficial Travian Discord (linked in my signature).

  • Hello all


    Are there none of you who have any issues they want BlackBlade to bring to Munich?

    What about the game?

    Thoughts, issues or questions about forum?


    We are now already in through the first week of March, and the time runs fast.


    BlackBlade has offered his Discord-account, and Skype.

    If some wants to be anonymous to the rest of the community, you can even pm BlackBlade , Stellamini or me, sommerfuglen , and your topics will be added here.


    Your time is now if you want your voice to be heard, and brought to Travians HeadQuarter in Munich.

  • This will be my first reply here - I might/will probably post more later on with additional topics/issues.


    FIrst off, I will refer to my post in the LoT discussion thread, in regards to the TO, TS and brewery buffs. Here:

    [Discussion] Legends on Tour 2019 Summit!



    Secondly, the other topic I will adress in this post is one that some of the previous participants in the event discussed with a few others and I already last year - helping new players. I am actually not sure if it was brought up on the tour last year so here goes.


    Currently, new players are lamb to the slaughter, unless they're super lucky and get picked up by a proper team/veteran players. But they won't be if they're already farms. Back in the day with a smaller browser game market (and no phone app market), people would still stick around - but atm there are so many other options that people are likely to quit.



    Some different options were discussed:

    • The tutorial/quest system needs to be reworked/extended to better prepare new players.
    • Have a "newbie" server, were people can learn the very basics of the game (problem is, how do you make sure it's only newbies? We all know that some scumbags would go there to beat up noobs).
    • Alternatively/additionally to above, the special beginner's server could have extended BP, with further guidance by the system to explain the basics (basically just simming up somewhat properly, i.e. building your village, maybe with a specific goal to settling 2nd), and limited interaction with other players, or even just natars (have the system send an attack to the player, to teach them what to do in regards to defense and such).
    • Having some kind of extended BP on the regular servers for new players, but with limits to what you can do inside it (maybe it will break if you settle 2nd, if you reach a certain pop etc. - and of course you should be unable to interact with other players in every way (no troop actions, no res transfers)).
    • Have special ingame guides that new players will be directed to with their questions - these could be regular players (ofc need to be vetted properly), who would maybe recieve some amount of gold for their help.


    I think some more options were suggested, but I can't remember them now. ELE   Final Word   Lemon   Schmitz' Katze might remember.


    Of course, this only applies if there is actually an influx of new players. I know ELE with her Sunday school for newbies had rather limited replies - but this might simply be because it's not something directly implemented on the servers.



    I'll return here if I have more to add on other topics.

  • BB forced me to write here. Some of these I will suggest require careful implementation - so I am not suggesting these to immediately take place. Anway, here we go:

    1) No reinforcing outside confed to be applied to all servers immediately, to prevent spiking etc. Same with introduction of new tribes.
    2) Some rework on how hero items work. There are some really cumbersome things. Such as, need to keep swapping hero items for specific purposes. I wonder if there would be a way to acquire "buffs" (on hero or on a village), which grant the effect of, lets say, reduced barracks training time, without needing to use helmets.
    3) Quests. Daily quests become useless after some point (While 50 CP is important in the beginning, it is nothing as the game progresses). Scaling these would be one way to go (Like tier 1 quests, tier 2 quests which are introduced with tier 2 weapons etc.) I think it would be even interesting to have a more broad quest system. Something similar to what Hearthstone brought. Not well thought example: Quest: Have 1k+ CP production in 10 villages. Reward: 20% increased CP in all villages for 1 week. According to the roles people choose, they could choose a quest - Quest of defender, quest of attacker, quest of simmer, etc.
    4) Map. I really like the dynamics of grey zone and I would like to have more of it. Maybe introduction of zone buffs from ptp servers is a way to go (GZ is split into several regions, each giving a different buffs). Or, if gz is extended in between quads (So not a circular shape but more of a star), that could motivate people to settle closer to borders and increase the action in the server.
    5) Auctions. I think fnx mentioned in the other thread. I dont know how many people actually stop playing the game seeing, that there is a guy who wants to spend 1M silver for a helmet. Especially for newbies, it is difficult to get hooked to the game knowing that one needs to spend hundreds of dollars to remain competitive. I haven't seen any other game that is more pay to win, than travian. This can be balanced by increasing the supply or limiting purchases of consumables.

    Might add more later on. GLHF BB <3.

    Noel, 8:13 PM

    She breaks my heart, I break their armies

  • Now, I don't play, care about speed but..


    Three speed servers were merged into anglox (usx, ukx, aux). Before, there was a relatively high chance of an English speaking speed server starting relatively soon if you were looking to start (4 servers including comx). Now, there's only comx and anglox, which means starts will be more infrequent.


    I saw some suggesting running multiple speed servers on anglo. I'm not sure I agree. But I agree that as a minimum, anglox should have frequent starts after ending (i.e. something like max 2 weeks), and not about 2 months, which is the current wait.


    (a sample thread complaining about it, there are multiple others: Time between servers )

  • Maybe it's time for a travian launcher, similar to battle.net or steam, that manages active servers and (in a limited fashion) tracks progress beyond what registered mail can do, while combatting multiaccounting and bots. This could work well with tracking/helping new players, in extension to what wishmaster said. Even if allowing launcher accounts to be unverified.


    This could open up for some options. Dedicated brawl servers, like most current servers where you can have any ingame nick, veteran servers that use your registered nethandle and have requirements to enter, a much improved tournament system, easier access to test servers where everything can be switched up for no reason, and much more. In addition, things like improved cheat detection and prevention, achievements system to encourage spicing things up, friends list, direct access to all players with news/announcements from TG, changelog access, dual-registration, cross-server payment options and much more can be handled from outside the ingame accounts, and across accounts.

  • I have two things to suggest, I have mentioned both before in other threads but would like them put forward:


    1. Buying gold (or more accurately running out) is inconvenient, can I pay a monthly direct debit so I don;t need to think about it


    2. I often have major issues registering on a new server, and customer service can take up to 24hrs to reply, this is disastrous when trying to settle the best possible cropper, so usually i just register again with a new email. If i run out of emails to actually get registered in the first hour of the server, i won;t bother playing that server. The solution is simple: pre-registration please :)

  • Little bit more elaboration on the current monetization scheme: Currently, the gold gives direct advantages for the players. One might argue that "I have seen players without gold did better than those with gold", but it is due to the noobery on the part of the latter. The sheer amount of advantage one gets with gold is crazy - instant completing (compared to 400 hours of two high level cropfields), straight 25% production increase, ability to almost double CP production early game (with helmets), being able to farm using farmlists (which is a core mechanic of the game), being able to queue... None of these are trivial or marginal benefits and some are extremely expensive to acquire. And these all are required to play the game competitively.

    Instead of this forced crazy spending scheme (which milks the money from those dedicated travian players), I really believe that moderating these would increase the playerbase - which would not only make this a better known game but also potentially compensate the loss of big transactions from a few players with the mass of smaller transactions. I would really like TG to shift spending behavior from giving clear advantage to cosmetics. I think 100 gold for gold club is perfectly acceptable. But supply-demand mechanics of the auctions as well as some other micro transactions (such as 25% increase in production), is a bit too much. Instead, it would be nice to have player be able to customize the villages for their liking. For instance, the appearance of hero and hero items could be bought. The outset of buildings, similarly could be bought. Maybe something like a lootbox system that is already present in other games.

    Noel, 8:13 PM

    She breaks my heart, I break their armies

  • From a player in pm:


    1. The Map:

    I think they really need to look at the map thing again. The lack of good croppers with 150% or 125% oasises is really hurting player retention in my opinion. Plus players spend far more gold on those croppers so i really don't understand it from a business point of view either. I get why they made the map smaller, the theory was good. But personally i don't think it has worked.


    2. Tech Accounts:
    I also think they need to clarify the situation regarding Tech accounts. What exactly is allowed now and what isn't? I think it is very unfair to players who play a traditional game with only 1 account, but as Techs are now allowed then at least we need to know to what extent they can be used.

  • Hi all,


    I've seen this post and I'm sure it will be a great help for your LOT representative : BB, in Münich. I hope the COM thread won't affect the participation to this thread since both are on the same language and the COM one is more frequented than the anglosphere one. Well, here my 2cents :


    Identifying the issues :

    • TL has, willingly or not, difficulties to propose new scenariis. Since 2011 (beginning of T4, if I remember well) or 2014 (release of T4.4, the current version), the game hasn't changed yet. We had to wait until 2017 (correct me if I'm wrong) for the first different scenario proposed by tg (RoA). Too long !
    • You win by building WoW, and WoW villages such as bp spawn at the same location every server, that leads to a static game, fighting for 2/3 specific areas. If you have mathematicians on your crew, you also can easily get the spawn coordinates of several arties such as the uniques artifacts.
    • Nothing have been done, back in 2012 and since, in developping a smartphone compatible web page (I'm not talking about doing an app, just a mobile-compatible web page).
    • TT is overrated. To give more power to the tournament it's better, in my opinion, to do it every 2 years. In empty years, TG can replace it by 2x national tournament such as ITA Titani 2x. Why ? Because 2x velocity is nearly perfect and the only server that use this velocity are : qualifications (on summer, so no big challenges), RoA/PtP on spring session and Finals. Doing national servers on winter (winter = less vacations = more actives players) can be helpfull to initiate players to the 2x velocity and "invite" them to continue the experience on Finals.


    Thoughts, issues or questions about forum?

    I'm sure Wolkenengel wants less rude SM ( playingwithfire )

    In my opinion, the forum is great. there is quite good exchanges in the threads I write (FR, COM, IT); I've also made several guides/tutorial which has been enjoyed by comunity. I'm not saying that everyone has to do a tutorial or do superb messages to present op against other allys but maybe to comment server/game.

    A game is created by web designers/creators but it's developped by his players. Let's take the example of Minecraft, the basic concept is lame : stacking cubes. Wow such fun... But Markus Person was open to suggestions and he included several things I'm sure he never think about. Result is that an unemployed guy, which learned to code java with an old shitty book sold, sold his creation for 2bilions$. An interface/thread to exchange the most discussed ideas/innovations directly with dvpt team in Munich can be nice, so we don't have to wait every LoT events :D

    cut

    Yes, I fully agree. Doing a forum interface and use forum power to fight against multies can be pretty nice. Kingdoms already have a lobby for that.


    From a player in pm:


    1. The Map:

    I think they really need to look at the map thing again. The lack of good croppers with 150% or 125% oasises is really hurting player retention in my opinion. Plus players spend far more gold on those croppers so i really don't understand it from a business point of view either. I get why they made the map smaller, the theory was good. But personally i don't think it has worked.

    1/ Nosense observation : it will be more accurate to compare statistically the distribution of croppers with small maps to big map. Of course, with a reduced maps you will get less croppers since there is less spots :yy:. However the game nowadays tends to prone the croppers as the ultimate village, when you can easily do high numbers with a good account. I remember on my first finals, with a 4437 +50% i've made 600k phalanx and 110k druids. My alliance helped me a lot with park on WoW or small diet.



    For now, that's all folks. If I have ideas and want to write them, i will.

    If some wants to be anonymous to the rest of the community, you can even pm BlackBlade, Stellamini or me, sommerfuglen, and your topics will be added here.

    PS : Can I pm you for other reasons ? ;)

  • 1/ Nosense observation : it will be more accurate to compare statistically the distribution of croppers with small maps to big map. Of course, with a reduced maps you will get less croppers since there is less spots :yy:. However the game nowadays tends to prone the croppers as the ultimate village, when you can easily do high numbers with a good account. I remember on my first finals, with a 4437 +50% i've made 600k phalanx and 110k druids. My alliance helped me a lot with park on WoW or small diet.

    How is it a nosense observation? Many players don't like the small map and would like the large map to return, even if just on selected servers. I thought the idea of this thread was to put forward ideas for possible discussion with the developers? I just thought it would have been interesting to find out if Munich feel the smaller map has been a success. But i'll keep my thoughts to myself in future.

  • How is it a nosense observation? Many players don't like the small map and would like the large map to return, even if just on selected servers. I thought the idea of this thread was to put forward ideas for possible discussion with the developers? I just thought it would have been interesting to find out if Munich feel the smaller map has been a success. But i'll keep my thoughts to myself in future.

    Let's do an example :

    I have a big car and a small car.

    -I use the big one to do 100 km, and i will consume 5L of gasoil.

    -I use the small one to do 1000km, and i consumo 44L of gasoil.


    According to you, the big one is better because it has consumed less gasoil.


    It's true that the big one has consummed less gasoil, but in the meanwhile you have done only 10% of the distance the small one has done. I'm just telling you to use the same parameters to compare, in this case you can use how many liters i've used to do 100km and you will see that the big one has a bigger consumption for 100km than the small one.


    The same goes for the map. Of course there is more cropper on 800*800 map since it's a bigger one, but if you report the number of cropper on the number of square on the map what will be the result? Will the relation (croppers 9and15cc/square on the map) be bigger on 800*800 map or the 400*400 map ?

  • with regard to the discussion on croppers/map size - I think the smaller map is better because it encourages more battles, as there is shorter travel time. Having to wait days on an army landing (or even merchants for that matter) is no fun, but at the same time, I don't want to play a x2 server. So a slow server with small map is perfect imo.


    The lack of croppers however, is not good for player numbers or player retention. Having more people play a smaller map should be more fun, so by not having enough croppers, less players are likely to stay. It may be possible to have 800k crop anvil with a 7c villa, but honestly, why would you lol, just think the size of anvil you could have had if you had a proper cap. I wouldn't stay on a server now if I didn't get a minimum 75% 15c, and even that would need to be in amongst the action with additional croppers nearby for supports.

  • Pardon me for taking the tone in another direction, but I see many of the same suggestions that have been made for years - to no avail.


    Could someone please supply the list of what was asked for at the last summit and whether any of them at all have been implemented? Forgive my cynicism, but I think we need to be realistic here. None of the (incredibly good) suggestions for player retention seem to ever get considered, and Travian Games, to my knowledge, has never given us any data on when & why new players delete - which we asked for and which they agreed to examine.


    The recent changes are more examples of things we didn't ask for, while we're constantly giving feedback on issues and it goes into a black hole.

  • Currently, new players are lamb to the slaughter, unless they're super lucky and get picked up by a proper team/veteran players. But they won't be if they're already farms. Back in the day with a smaller browser game market (and no phone app market), people would still stick around - but atm there are so many other options that people are likely to quit.


    Some different options were discussed:

    • The tutorial/quest system needs to be reworked/extended to better prepare new players.
    • Have a "newbie" server, were people can learn the very basics of the game (problem is, how do you make sure it's only newbies? We all know that some scumbags would go there to beat up noobs).
    • Alternatively/additionally to above, the special beginner's server could have extended BP, with further guidance by the system to explain the basics (basically just simming up somewhat properly, i.e. building your village, maybe with a specific goal to settling 2nd), and limited interaction with other players, or even just natars (have the system send an attack to the player, to teach them what to do in regards to defense and such).
    • Having some kind of extended BP on the regular servers for new players, but with limits to what you can do inside it (maybe it will break if you settle 2nd, if you reach a certain pop etc. - and of course you should be unable to interact with other players in every way (no troop actions, no res transfers)).
    • Have special ingame guides that new players will be directed to with their questions - these could be regular players (ofc need to be vetted properly), who would maybe recieve some amount of gold for their help.


    I think some more options were suggested, but I can't remember them now.

    An additional suggestion was to disable farm list sending initially, possibly until week 3. Obviously, all the big raiders howled that down despite the fact that many people agreed the massive farming is what causes new players to delete.


    One more: Nerf the oasis spawning to encourage week one players to raid those instead of new players.


    And another: Generate natar villages sooner to encourage week one players to raid those instead of new players.


    So, that's eight suggestions for player retention. Number of these measures implemented so far: 0.


    Incidentally, the lack of croppers has been mentioned before too, for several years. The fact that a server lasting 8 months (that's a long time!) can be won or lost in week one... that is quite pathetic and unbalanced. Yes it's a war game, but it is so cutthroat that new players bear the brunt of the manic race for the croppers. There is no way in the world that 90% of players have any chance for a 150. And if you are new to the game, your whole server will probably be ruined in week one anyway. I have a couple of new players in my alliance, who like everyone else were given build guides and told to aim for 130 CP quickly, but because they just don't understand the urgency and how their game will end up ruined? They'll be settling on day 14. Veterans will know what that means, a poor cropper on the moon. No action apart from defending someone else out on the moon. Not a very exciting game, not a great reason to come back next server.


    Why is this game so incessantly pandering to gold buyers to such an extreme that you're benefiting the top handful so much that the vast majority of your player base gives up in frustration? We've already quit two servers in a row because we can't compete with bottomless gold pit players who have ten tech accounts. Add in no chance of a WW because ours would be in grey zone... yes, server ruined, time to quit. WW villages and croppers have no need to be so scarce in number. None.

  • Regarding the mapsize.

    Small map is good, the lack of decent croppers is not.


    Below is the 150% stats of both Anglo6 & Anglo8


    Anglo6 150% 15c's:

    5 - NE

    6 - SE

    8 - SW

    2 - NW


    3x GZ, 4x between 25 - 50 tiles out, 1x between 50 - 100 tiles out, 11x between 100 - 150 tiles out & 6x between 150 - 200 tiles out.



    Anglo8 150% 15c's:

    15 - NE

    8 - SE

    6 - SW

    4 - NW


    9x GZ, 3x between 25 - 50 tiles out, 4x between 50 - 100 tiles out, 3x between 100 - 150 tiles out & 14x between 150 - 200 tiles.

    Annoying part is that 3 pairs of these share the same 3 oases. 2 pairs in GZ & 1 pair around the 40 tile mark.

    On both servers most of the croppers were either in the Greyzone or 125|125 or further out. Hardly any in between. It's too unbalanced. Your either sat on someones toes or sat on the moon with little or no interaction.


    WW's in greyzone have become irrelevant as hardly any alliance goes for them now.

    Instead of having the non GZ WWs from game start at 50|50 & 0|50 locations, have them spawn at random like T3.6 used to do but this time between 50 tiles & 125 tiles out. Roughly 1/2 way out in each quadrant.


    I find settling in the greyzone puts players at a big disadvantage too especially early game.

    Not only do you waste resources that non GZ settlers don't for the initial 14 waves off Natars but the lack of CP from those GZ vills isn't outweighed by the oasis benefit. This also makes artworks & big parties useless until v3 or v4, depending on how far into the GZ you go.

  • 1. Please bring back the rep system. Don't want this forum to turn out like Facebook.


    2. Balanced distribution of croppers 125% and 150% in all quads. Last few rounds I've played, most of the aforementioned cropper bonuses were all compacted in a single quad while the other quad had only 75%'s and 100%'s (Anglosphere X for example. NW had like 2 125% and 150% while NE had like over 10 125% and 150%)


    3. Get a damn black or fluid black theme for the forums! It's high time and TG needs to keep up with the cool kids.


    I'll add more when I think of it.

    Yes, I've built my fair share of WWs. Won a few, lost a few. Played far too many rounds for far too long. Made a lot friends and enemies.


    Yes, I've played as an anvil and as a hammer. I'm only playing now because of all the friendship I have built over the past ten years. I love Travian but I love the community even more.


    Envy me for I have everything, Fear me for I have nothing to lose.


    The one and only, Teutobod.