[LoT '19] Phase III: Summit Daily Report

  • Here I will be posting a daily synopsis of the events of the summit. I may not get them out day of but I will be taking notes that I can refer back to in order to type them up later. I will be adding all content to the original thread post and will post a separately to notify you when I've added new content. Please feel free to give feedback on what I post.


    Thanks!


    -BB


    Anglosphere Legends on Tour 2019 Representative


    Carni wrote:

    God I would kill to have like 4 of you on every team I play

    Post was edited 9 times, last by BlackBlade ().

  • First of all, nice summary. I know I appreciate such updates.


    I can see why people would support randomised WW spawn but it isn't for me personally. Maybe if it spawned within a certain range like artifacts it'd be more palatable?

    As a point for the above and for reducing the number of wonders, I tend to look at the map and the areas teams need to control currently - there are several.

    - Wonder plans and unique artifacts spawn radius

    - Wonder area itself (generally the outer wonders to buy more notice on attacks and raids in general)

    - Large artifact spawn radius

    - Small artifact spawn radius

    Removing the grey wonders, although underutilised, removes an amount of influence from a portion of the map that is seeing less and less activity to begin with.

    Personally, the location of the wonders on the half size maps (50 radius) feels more active / competitive in comparison to the location on the normal size servers (100 radius). I'd be more inclined to remove the outer wonders and force teams to be more active / competitive in the center.

    Has an added bonus of making the grey area more viable than it is currently.


    Unsure how I feel about the end game lengths - I feel as though there would be differing thoughts between the regular servers and tournament servers. Normal servers drag out due to the lesser amount of defence in the wonders. Tournament servers end quickly since the amount of defence is overwhelming.

    This is without considering the possible implementation of the confederacy rule... Don't know how to reconcile my thoughts here at present.


    I'd be instantly behind several of the plans ideas especially if implemented in isolation of each other. I'm on the fence about static building plans as it removes an element of strategy and plays into the area control / denial mentioned above for prior points. It also gives the NE an undeniable advantage since that quad has 4 plans spawn compared to the 3 for the other quads.


    Jonothan Crane wrote:

    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  • Day 4 has been added. Sorry that Day 2 and Day 3 aren't completed but I haven't had the chance. Day 4 includes a particularly important topic that I wanted to bring up.


    Please don't mind any formatting issues. My laptop and not being particularly cooperative.

    Anglosphere Legends on Tour 2019 Representative


    Carni wrote:

    God I would kill to have like 4 of you on every team I play

  • This has become very obvious with the merging of servers and different ideas about how the game should be played in different communities.


    Tech accounts are just a way of getting around multi accounting. But this seems to be the way the game is going now and is the main reason why a lot of long standing players, like me, are leaving the game. With the clear evidence now that HQ are supporting it, which has been fairly obvious for sometime given how much money is to be made from the domains and players that support it, the domains that have never liked it will just die out completely.


    Merging the Anglo servers together was an attempt to bring back some competition to already dying domains, but unfortunately it hasn't worked.


    Stand out Award 2017 UK
    illuicons_8_wonder-150x150.png

  • Tech accounts are just a way of getting around multi accounting.

    The logic is that if it is a real player they should be able to play the game in the manner that suits them, which for some is to be a tech account. The tech account does ultimately do the same thing as any other account - contribute towards the success of a team.

    Anglosphere Legends on Tour 2019 Representative


    Carni wrote:

    God I would kill to have like 4 of you on every team I play

  • If they say so. The lack of response in here though is its own indicator.


    So is this it for the big annual trip to Munich?


    What a pointless waste of time and money. At least last year we got photos and discussions and felt involved. This year we get HQ deciding tech accounts are the way forward hidden behind a spoiler tag. Whoopee Doo.


    Does my negativity make me one of the poisonous community the CMs are getting special training to deal with?


    Stand out Award 2017 UK
    illuicons_8_wonder-150x150.png

    Post was edited 2 times, last by Mercedes ().

  • The logic there is unfortunately pretty sound... What's really the difference between building lots of defense to protect your hammers in order to help your alliance win, and sending those resources directly to a hammer to help train more offense to help your alliance win? The problem is that players who are used to a game without tech accounts are unable to compete with those who use them, and may choose to leave rather than invest more time and money into developing tech accounts. There doesn't seem to be a way to ban them, since they (at least sometimes) truly are real accounts being played in a logical and fair way.


    I think the best option is to adopt the PTP confed rule, or a form of it, limiting reinforcements and resource pushing to allies/confeds. This wouldn't eliminate techs, but it would at least make it clear that you're facing a 100+ player meta, and not one 60 player alliance that magically has twice as many resources as you.

  • I tend to agree with Mercedes' general premise on the tech argument.

    Granted, I do recognise the arguments of the other side and see why HQ made the decision they did.

    Merging the Anglo servers together was an attempt to bring back some competition to already dying domains, but unfortunately it hasn't worked.

    The first combined round in hasn't finished yet. Even then, that round attracted attention of players who predominately play other domains.


    As7 (which I personally think would be more akin to future servers) seems to have a decent embassy presence and competition at least compared to the last servers that finished from the old domains.

    I don't think the speed servers have changed much since they had already intermixed previously.


    As a result, I don't think it's fair to judge the result just quite yet but that's just my own opinion.


    Jonothan Crane wrote:

    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

    Post was edited 1 time, last by Scarecrow ().

  • There doesn't seem to be a way to ban them, since they (at least sometimes) truly are real accounts being played in a logical and fair way

    Enforcement is another big issue. The rule as written is open to interpretation and varies widely among MH. The customer service side is working to ensure that all players are treated the same - same rules, same punishments. That is very hard to do with an opaque rule like this one. The goal is to simplify the rule system and allow players to play as they want that isn't blatant cheating such as multis, bots and scripts.


    So is this it for the big annual trip to Munich?


    What a pointless waste of time and money. At least last year we got photos and discussions and felt involved. This year we get HQ deciding tech accounts are the way forward hidden behind a spoiler tag. Whoopee Doo.


    Does my negativity make me one of the poisonous community the CMs are getting special training to deal with?

    I almost missed this as this was all content added in with an edit.


    A few things:

    • Nothing is official as I noted in my post, I simply shared the direction of the discussion. I even specifically noted that there is still time to influence the result.
    • The spoiler tag was the best way to organize multiple days of content. I may also create a more detailed post - I have 20 pages of notes from the summit. I will share as much as I can that isn't covered by NDA.
    • The community has been and remains able to discuss any topic they want that is important to them.
    • I expect Travian will release some media content over the next 1-2 weeks
    • All the teams working on Legends received a lot of valuable feedback on how to improve the community experience. Likewise we received a lot of information about how they operate, how they think and how much they care.

    Anglosphere Legends on Tour 2019 Representative


    Carni wrote:

    God I would kill to have like 4 of you on every team I play

    Post was edited 2 times, last by BlackBlade ().

  • Regarding tribe balance the outcome was that the majority felt no additional balancing was currently needed for the tribes. I disagreed but this was generally a majority rules event. Despite this the subject will be closely monitored and if it becomes clear changes are needed the game center is willing to consider them.

    I'm curious... Was this discussed in relation to the 3 baseline tribes or on a basis of all 5 tribes and how they would interact if they do indeed end up on regular servers?


    Jonothan Crane wrote:

    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  • What about anglo6 ?

    You want a quick summary?

    Mass deletions and merges, with five high quality alliances either deleting, merging or completely walked over by techers. Competition is in the toilet. There is absolutely no way to compete against the massive tech advantage. Not just that, techers are now so smug about teching being condoned by TG, that they have killed all fun discussion under an arrogant air of simply being more "skilled". The forum is toxic now.


    People are disheartened, will never play against certain groups again, and are quite openly saying they won't bother playing the game itself in future. I have heard people say they're retiring for the past ten years - and always chuckled knowing they would be back - but this is the first time so many people are saying the same thing.


    So congratulations Travian, the operation was a success but the patient died. You have wrecked the last threads of the community. Do you think any new players at all will find this a fun, fair game to play?


    Oops, I think I just joined that poisonous club.

  • There is absolutely no way to compete against the massive tech advantage

    Was it the power of the nowhere to be found techs that made ARRA get 0 plans?
    Was it the same power that made TBC do one OP for the 130 days they were a ally?
    Was it the same power that made you settle a capital 2 fields away from one of our strongest players while having no standing?
    Or same power that made 90% of your deffers to deff themself every attack and the other 10% to always send to Bats?


    How can you even be so proud & iggnorant of your failure so you have to blame everyone around you?

    OLYMPIA have 60+ techs still havent achived shit all round.

    Why do you keep blaming your poor planning & being outclassed all round on "techs"
    Take the loss & learn from it instead.

    Best regards Toxic player.


    with five high quality alliances either deleting,

    High quality?
    There is no way you can call either 1776/1812 or TBC to be high quality.
    AR/RA got some good players thats for sure and the same with Olympia but poor leadership/teamplay.

    TT final 2015 - Das Båt (SE)
    TT Qualify RU 2016 - Das Båt (Cerber-DD)
    TT final 2016 - illicit Ping, Pong & PangPang (Def&Dest)
    TT Qualify RU 2017 - Chip&Dale #1 off (CerbeR)
    TT Final 2017 - Chip&Dale (CerbeR)
    TT Qualify RU 2018 - ChipDale #1 pop (CerbeR)
    TT Final 2018 - Chip&Dale (WW BP release) (CerbeR-I)
    SE3 2017 - Krokodil
    Se1 2017-2018 Garbage Bag #1 Def (SKRÄP)
    Active -
    S6 Anglosphere - Mimer (Bifrost)

    Post was edited 4 times, last by Loffe: The more i think about this post the more i want to add. ().

  • What you’ve said is all true to an extent and Bifrost have played outstandingly as a team.


    I’m curious though, one of your little Cereals hangers on has been bragging about how you knew in advance where the plans were going to spawn, to the exact location and that he was instructed by you where to send before they spawned.


    How did you know the spawn locations are fixed now? And quite honestly, what’s the point in playing if they are?


    Stand out Award 2017 UK
    illuicons_8_wonder-150x150.png

  • I’m curious though, one of your little Cereals hangers on has been bragging about how you knew in advance where the plans were going to spawn, to the exact location and that he was instructed by you where to send before they spawned.


    How did you know the spawn locations are fixed now? And quite honestly, what’s the point in playing if they are?

    Thought it was common knowledge where BP would spawn :/.
    Ever since RU team managed to take all 13 finals 2016-2017 TG went out with the spawns & made them fixed, i doubt i'm able to found any forum post about this but i'm sure someone from TG can approve.
    With this being said i'm pretty disapointed with OLYMPIA who all their leaders played this finals and still not managed to pick up more then one (which would have been ours aswell if i didn't fail :P).

    EDIT : Link to the post about the BP's. (Even if this looks like a copy paste from the original post)

    If this wasnt anything ARRA knew i do understand your frustration.

    On bigger server such as finals most of the servers war is all about securing every BP drop for your team.
    Most of our war against 1776 have been about removing them from the SE spawns, so we could focus our fastest cleaners on SW/NW.

    TT final 2015 - Das Båt (SE)
    TT Qualify RU 2016 - Das Båt (Cerber-DD)
    TT final 2016 - illicit Ping, Pong & PangPang (Def&Dest)
    TT Qualify RU 2017 - Chip&Dale #1 off (CerbeR)
    TT Final 2017 - Chip&Dale (CerbeR)
    TT Qualify RU 2018 - ChipDale #1 pop (CerbeR)
    TT Final 2018 - Chip&Dale (WW BP release) (CerbeR-I)
    SE3 2017 - Krokodil
    Se1 2017-2018 Garbage Bag #1 Def (SKRÄP)
    Active -
    S6 Anglosphere - Mimer (Bifrost)

    Post was edited 1 time, last by Loffe: Added link to forum post ().

  • I guess from our backwater servers in the UK we are out of the loop as we all still thought plan spawn was random.


    It was a well set up plan from Bifrost that completely blindsided us. Congrats, certainly made the server more interesting.


    Stand out Award 2017 UK
    illuicons_8_wonder-150x150.png

  • How could we know it was predetermined?

    This is taken straight out of Travian Answers (FAQ-page):

    Natar Plan Villages (Natarian Oases)

    Natar plan villages, also known as Natarian Oases, are the villages that house the Wonder of the World Construction Plans. These villages (they are villages, not oases) spawn at a predefined time after the start of the server. The plan villages spawn randomly but each quad receives a certain minimum number of these villages for fairness.

    Guess this needs updating.

  • Guys, let's not turn this into As6 2.0... There are good points to be made all around, but they will swamp this thread with pages of server-specific arguments.


    Regarding the plan drop locations, it seems TG needs to update the Travian answers and other in-game notices, many of them (including plan drops) are out of date and give those who have updated information an enormous advantage. (Obviously through no fault of their own, calm down Loffe 8o)

  • it seems TG needs to update the Travian answers and other in-game notices, many of them (including plan drops) are out of date

    Definitely. This was one of the issues I raised in Munich and I was assured they are aware and have a plan to tackle it, which brings me to another point.


    Every Legends team (Game Design, Development, UI/IUX, Art, Marketing etc.) are all VERY busy. If I recall correctly the Dev team has stuff planned out through part of 2020 already so we need to be patient. I know that is hard - I'm one of those that wants my 302 item spreadsheet accomplished right now but we need to be patient. They are trying to balance the needs and wants of a global community with the resources they have.


    That said some things will happen sooner than others, either because they are easier or because they are already in-progress. It also depends on which team(s) need to work on something. For instance for a lot of the content of the summit, first Game Design needs to flesh it out and determine the first, second and even third order effects. They need to decide if the change is good for the game. Then they need to know from Development if it can be done. Then development needs to code it and the UI/UX team to figure out how it will look in game (if applicable). It is also possible that the Art team needs to be involved for say creating a new icon. Then the XAP team needs to test it. Meanwhile there are multiple stakeholders who have input on the decision process as well.


    By contrast somethings only require half as many people involved and actually doing them is very simple.


    It isn't a question of "Do X" and magically it happens. There are a lot of bright and caring members on the team - they want the best for the game and community but taking an idea and bringing it to global roll-out can be a lengthy process. The development team in particular wants to make everything perfect before it is implemented, while say the game designer wants to see something out faster. The product owner has to balance those competing interests of getting content out to the community in a usable manner vs waiting for it to be perfect.


    Before the inevitable objections regarding bugs, yes they do happen. Part of that is the nature of coding anything, what impacts one thing can impact something completely unrelated. Some of this is caught in internal testing, others is caught during public testing on PTR and a little bit ends up being released publicly. Things that are critical are addressed as quickly as possible but it can be difficult to determine exactly what caused the bug. The game is built on top of a lot of original code from earlier game versions (i.e T3, T2), when web standards were very different. They are working to improve that but they also have to balance the community interest in new features, changes to existing features and game specials.


    In short, they hear us, know there are problems and they are working on them.

    Anglosphere Legends on Tour 2019 Representative


    Carni wrote:

    God I would kill to have like 4 of you on every team I play

  • I understand that new additions or changes to the game involve lots of work as you described, but the forum post that Loffe linked is from 2017. Updating Travian Answers in accordance with updates to the game should be the easy part.


    People spend a lot of money on this game, as we all know. Some of them just discovered that, from their perspective, TG gave their opponents inside information which translated directly into a huge in-game advantage. That's the kind of thing that leads to veteran players leaving the game for good.


    Also, this game is and will always be difficult for new players to learn. Those new players haven't read the forums for years (or at all) and usually don't have veteran friends to point out all the tips and tricks to them. They rely mostly on the explanations provided in-game and in Travian Answers, and if those explanations are vague, unhelpful, or simply incorrect, they're not going to stick around very long.


    There are a lot of complicated issues the TG has to deal with, and many updates and fixes that necessarily take time to design and implement. However, there are also some really simple things that seem to be forgotten or ignored.