Legends on Tour 2019 Summit - Workshop Minutes

  • Discussion of article Legends on Tour 2019 Summit - Workshop Minutes:

    Quote
    It's finally time to share with you the workshop minutes. We worked hard to finalize them, and we are still working on some. We will keep updating the notes on this static page that you can see on the top navigagion menu. Do not forget to check it from time to time! Meanwhile, enjoy reading! Game Design Notes We want to make sure Travian: Legends fits into our players’ time schedules. We want to make it easier to optimize the game, without giving the “one button to play it all”.⬅️…
  • "Also, we want to remove the difference between raiding an alliance member and raiding anyone else. To achieve this, we will expand a limit to how many resources can be raided to all accounts.

    According to the participants of the Legends on Tour 2019 Summit this will increase teamwork, as multiple players need to raid a target to maximise bounty."


    Sounds like there will not be a top 10 raiders anymore seeing as there will be a limit to resources raided? Or is this "The person who hits the most farms will have the biggest raid potential"

  • "Also, we want to remove the difference between raiding an alliance member and raiding anyone else. To achieve this, we will expand a limit to how many resources can be raided to all accounts.

    According to the participants of the Legends on Tour 2019 Summit this will increase teamwork, as multiple players need to raid a target to maximise bounty."


    Sounds like there will not be a top 10 raiders anymore seeing as there will be a limit to resources raided? Or is this "The person who hits the most farms will have the biggest raid potential

    Yeah, this is a really weird change. They also want to help automate farm lists some more but will make it so there is a raiding cap on farms, meaning you will have to constantly change farm lists to make sure you are hitting farms you haven't capped out on.

    I don't see any reason to make this change

  • "Also, we want to remove the difference between raiding an alliance member and raiding anyone else. To achieve this, we will expand a limit to how many resources can be raided to all accounts.

    According to the participants of the Legends on Tour 2019 Summit this will increase teamwork, as multiple players need to raid a target to maximise bounty."


    Sounds like there will not be a top 10 raiders anymore seeing as there will be a limit to resources raided? Or is this "The person who hits the most farms will have the biggest raid potential"

    This is part of the hard-coded protections being looked at to minimize the impact to the change in Rule 1.1.


    The major concern is "tech" accounts i.e. those that exist largely to act as friendly farms/garages for players and/or alliances. Right now pushing protections are essentially built around limiting resource flow between connected accounts through the alliance/confed, sitting or IP. IP generally targets multi-accounts and under the proposed Rule 1.1 changes still be against the rules. Current pushing protections don't do anything to target friendly farms outside the alliance/confed. The new "pushing" protections are designed to limit the value of those out of alliance tech accounts.


    Some techs are in alliances, though I would say generally they are not. This is because within alliances there are some existing protections that limit the resources that can be gained from them. By having the same rules across the board the goal is to limit the value of tech accounts, which can only be done by addressing raid related protections. We already see the current push protections being worked around by using raiding, this is closing the loophole.


    The in-game protections will also be simpler when all is said and done, the current connections / protections table is quite messy.


    meaning you will have to constantly change farm lists to make sure you are hitting farms you haven't capped out on.

    Under the current discussions it is anticipated that this will only happen in the early days of the server on accounts that have maxed our warehouse/granary i.e fresh farms. Otherwise most players should not hit the cap, especially once players hit the point where they can comfortably farm all farms at once and are competing against dozens of other farmers. Unless of course they are friendly farms, but then you hitting the limit is exactly what we want to see happen.

  • I have said it before in the Hispanic domain and now I say it here so that others also think about it.



    I have read all the notes about the 2019 tour and the ideas, and there is one that worries me more than any other because the repercussions in the game change and is the implementation of catapult trains as a form of automation.

    A good offensive player of travian knows how to launch trains not just at the second but accurated on time date as well.

    So them with the new changes everyone will be able to send trains with more than 80% of the accuracy is something for me too easy for many players mediocre that do not dream to send this kind of attack even badly, which has been sweat and experience to send trains of many experienced players and even today there are times that some trains leave badly. Even so the idea of facilitating the game is very valid on the part of the developers, only that I would like there to be much more balance and the experience and the skill of the players will not be thrown away

    My proposal or suggestion:


    So implement that system but there is a way to differentiate in the precision of the trains between a skilled player and a noob one, I would suggest, that the daily missions were restructured and that by the amount of points they give daily missions will also influence the accuracy of trains leaving in 1sec or departing in 2se divided. I explain



    could be attacked 3 natars daily, but if the attack comes in the same second (in the form of train, without using the facility that would be implemented) there is a bonus of accuracy, if it arrives at 00:00, 06:00, 12:00 or 18:00 hours server (4 attempts) with just times there is another bonus of accuracy.


    could be given many ideas such as those in which the missions could measure the skill or the players' stain so that 80% accuracy was only good players, while those who do not fulfill the missions (eye not the current missions that do not generate any difficulty mid sever onwards) only have 10 or 20%

    I don´t remember any server, I don´t remember any account, I don´t even know who i am...

    :cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing:

  • So implement that system but there is a way to differentiate in the precision of the trains between a skilled player and a noob one,

    Proposed concept of a wave-builder is nothing more than a mirror of specific browser that is needed to send such waves. What skills are you talking about? Ability to play on PC instead of phone? Pretty sure vast majority of players wants to eliminate the difference when possible. Good internet? Still needed. Ability to click fast enough? There are shooting games if you want to compete on that skill. Precision of trains is not effected by this at all, you still need to click on the right second. Some "expect" in another thread advised to cancel and resend if you did not get perfect set. So much for precision ;)


    Sending wave is a technique that gives advantage to veteran players against new comers and new players is what the game needs badly. The technique that is easy to master, just need access to the knowledge. If a few more of them learn it before they had enough of disadvantage is good thing.

  • Under the current discussions it is anticipated that this will only happen in the early days of the server on accounts that have maxed our warehouse/granary i.e fresh farms. Otherwise most players should not hit the cap, especially once players hit the point where they can comfortably farm all farms at once and are competing against dozens of other farmers. Unless of course they are friendly farms, but then you hitting the limit is exactly what we want to see happen.

    This is interesting. I guess it's one of those changes that need to be experienced before a non-biased opinion can be given

  • Fresh fat farms are not only early days of a server though. Far from it. It is unwritten gentleman code is most good alliances - if I clear a farm none of my teammate will farm it for a couple of days to let me recover losses AND get profit. Finding and clearing farm is extra effort and lost troops meaning lost training time. Why would I do it if as result I only return cost of killed troops? You will have to coordinate with teammates to take it all out before enemies do. Maybe good thing maybe not. Raider in me does not like the change at all.

  • Fresh fat farms are not only early days of a server though. Far from it. It is unwritten gentleman code is most good alliances - if I clear a farm none of my teammate will farm it for a couple of days to let me recover losses AND get profit. Finding and clearing farm is extra effort and lost troops meaning lost training time. Why would I do it if as result I only return cost of killed troops? You will have to coordinate with teammates to take it all out before enemies do. Maybe good thing maybe not. Raider in me does not like the change at all.

    Interesting point. Unlikely you're gonna co-ordinate 5 ally members to all send their troops on raid to clear a farm to share losses as well as profits! I'm not a fan of the change either

  • Why would I do it if as result I only return cost of killed troops?

    Here is a theoretical example:

    • You clear a farm and take 1,000 res in losses
    • You can raid 7 days of 10 hours daily production + the 1,000 res you lost
    • Production is 100/hour = 7,000
    • Res that can be raided immediately = 8,000

    So there will still be profit :)

  • BlackBlade, your example kinda misses the point of it being later in the server (and not even really that late into a server) when it's potentially 10's of thousands if not more in losses to collect more then that in losses.


    Like if for example the hard cap is say.... 5k res every day, then after someone has say... 2k defensive army and a 20 wall, it's now never going to be worth raiding them, as your gonna lose more then that 5k to clear them, and not get back enough.

  • Its an interesting fix to personal farms for sure. Let's see how it turns out. I guess after early game hitting the cap will never happen on regular farming since most of the quad farm the same farms

  • Under the Automatization section for the celebration queue feature. According to the picture shown it seems like you can only queue celebrations if you have enough resources at that particular moment as seen in the pic that you can queue the small party but not the large one.


    Lets assume that we do have enough resources at the moment to queue the large party but what if at the moment its time for the large party to activate from its queue? Will it activate, will it be disabled, will it switch to the small party, or any other scenario?

    Dead... Everyone is gone.

  • Under the Automatization section for the celebration queue feature. According to the picture shown it seems like you can only queue celebrations if you have enough resources at that particular moment as seen in the pic that you can queue the small party but not the large one.


    Lets assume that we do have enough resources at the moment to queue the large party but what if at the moment its time for the large party to activate from its queue? Will it activate, will it be disabled, will it switch to the small party, or any other scenario?


    What is in the document is just a proposal, there is no final concept yet.

    As we thought it, you can queue parties if you have resources, the resources are already taken, as soon as the party can start, it will start automatically.

  • I have done some reading and here's what i got to say.


    (1) Celebration queue: Yes, yes and yes. It would mean a lot if we could simply queue another celebration (for example, big party) so that we don't have to be online at the specific time when the ongoing party is being finished. Sometimes the party would end during the night, which sucks as most players/people wouldn't be able to be online at that time to queue another party immediately. Doesn't even have to be the middle of a night. Could be during the day when you simply can't get online, for example if you're at work, school or whatever. If we can queue most of the things in the game, why not queue celebrations as well. Great, positive addition.


    (2) Wave builder: Huge NO from me! Sending wave attacks takes time, practice and skill. Why would you even consider such thing, taking the skill away and making it automatic? Sure, let's just make every single thing in the game automatic so we can literally roll back and click with our left foot. Jokes aside, this is a bad move. First of all, sending waves is not even that hard. It's actually pretty simple and everyone who really wanted to learn how to send waves, they did. It's disrespectful towards the skilled players, towards game quality. Let's just assume, for example, a game called League of Legends (took that example as i assume most people know/play the game) decides to automatize some skillful moves. Moves that only top players can do or moves that takes time and practice to complete them. What would be the whole point of the game then? The point is actually to have that skill gap which separates good from bad players, that separates those who actually invest time into the game and practice things to obtain new skill from those who don't.


    "This wave builder will allow players who want to participate in an operation via mobile to join with the lowest possible effort."


    Nice joke, no offense. First of all, if you really cared about those people who play via mobile, you would create a mobile app years ago. Second, players who want to participate in an operation, they will do it with or without wave builder. Third, "lowest possible effort" is ridiculous. When it's about things like that, it's NOT supposed to be easy. It's NOT supposed to be done with lowest possible effort. This a war-based game. A game where good operations and skill will/should prevail. Want to be good in this game, in operations? Learn how to send the waves manually. It's a NOT damn nuclear physics. Takes about 5 minutes to check a video on YouTube on how it's done and then it's all practice after that. I am 100% confident that even a new player who's playing the game for the first time can get the 4 waves in same second under an hour of practice.


    Do NOT automatize such skillful things. Let players practice and learn, acquire that skill.


    (3) Farm lists: I am someone who is using farm lists on every account i play on. I either farm heavily or i don't play at all.


    a) Why are farm lists limited to a max of 100 farms per list? What's the actual reasoning behind that? Isn't it literally the same for you guys whether that limit is at 10, 100 or 1000? From someone who is sending farm lists every few minutes on every account i play on, it's pretty exhausting, time consuming and ridiculous to have to click on multiple farm lists every single time. Please increase that limit to at least 500 so we can have all our farms under a same farm lists so that we don't have to click multiple ones each time.


    b) It would be nice if we would have an option to send raids only on farms that raided full amount of resources the last time those raids landed. I am not sure if i explained well so i will give you an example.


    Let's say we have 100 farms in a farm list. Out of 100, 15 of those farms were raided with full amount of resources (for example, 2 clubs took maximum amount of 120 resources). Now, instead of having to manually click those 15 farms and press send again, we could simply do it by 1 click if we had an option to repeat only such farms.






    If i am going to be honest here. The game is dying and if nothing drastically changes, it might be completely dead over the next few years. Yes, it's dying so please don't even try to convince me otherwise. Player base has dropped significantly due to numerous reasons. There used to be thousands and thousands of players on each server in each country. Now, you're lucky if you get a 1000-2000 players on a speed server in combined countries/regions (balkan, nordic etc etc).


    Few reasons why i personally think it's in the state it is now:


    (1) Main reason by a huge margin: you heavily started to favorite money over time and skill. I understand that everything nowadays goes around money but shouldn't be that heavily. You simply can't compete without Gold right now. There's no way you can have a good account and make impact on the server without that shiny thing.


    (2) Zero advertisement. I mean, literally 0. You're not getting any new players to the game because of that. You're only keeping the oldsquad and those are leaving the game each day, month, year. All that is natural, people simply stop to play but you gotta have new people coming in.


    (3) Mobile app. Simple as that. Playing on PC was great 10-15 years ago but most of the people are on their phones now and playing without a proper app is hard, to say the least.


    (4) No regular updates/implementations. You gotta have new things come in, regularly, to keep the people interested. Look at top games and learn from them. I will once again use League of Legends as an example. They're implementing new things all the time. Changing things. Doesn't have to be major things at all. That's what is keeping players interested. It's getting boring when you're doing everything the same each round/server.


    (5) MH corruption couple of years ago which completely destroyed some servers and it's player-base.


    (6) Lack of bot detection. No need to explain further.




    These are just a few from the top of my head.

  • (2) Wave builder: Huge NO from me! Sending wave attacks takes time, practice and skill.

    The concept behind wavebuilder is to mirror the FF or something similar, nothing more. There is no common browser currently that allows you to send waves by off-line method. You need old version of FF or copies of it. Opera is not clean either- can argue that you modify the browser to do it. So technically all options are illegal from purist view of TG rules.

  • " Also, we want to remove the difference between raiding an alliance member and raiding anyone else. To achieve this, we will expand a limit to how many resources can be raided to all accounts. According to the participants of the Legends on Tour 2019 Summit this will increase teamwork, as multiple players need to raid a target to maximize bounty. "


    Can someone explain what does this even mean?


    For example, currently, i could farm players even every 30 seconds if that's what i wanted, taking almost all their resource production. What would this update change? I would have a limit of how much i could farm from a certain player?

  • skill.

    Sorry but sending waves stopped being a "skill" years ago.

    (2) Zero advertisement.

    Advertise where exactly? First the audience for browser based games has shrunk significantly with the rise of mobile gaming. Second TG is never going to be able to compete against the advertising of bigger gaming companies.

    (3) Mobile app

    As has been stated it is currently technically impossible. However the technical issues are being worked on that will allow the improvement of the mobile experience. Playing in a mobile browser with a mobile specific UI will do just fine i.e an app itself isn't required even if it has slight advantages over a mobile interface. Are they behind in it? Most definitely. But Legends was also due to be replaced by Kingdoms (T5) only 5 years ago. T5 has a mobile app and that was part of the development of T5 to begin with. Context is always good to keep in mind.

    (4) No regular updates/implementations

    This is something that has been steadily improving.

    (6) Lack of bot detection

    Constantly being improved however the bots are also constantly being improved. It is wack-a-mole.

    (3) Farm lists:

    There are improvements that were discussed and are under consideration. I would speculate that we will see some improvements in the nearish future.

  • Do you mind explaining the last comment i posted here regarding the farming resources changes? As i have said, i could farm players even every 30 seconds if that's what i wanted, taking almost all their resource production. What would this update change? I would have a limit of how much i could farm from a certain player?