New patch: raiding restrictions

  • This change was first made public on nordics, but seeing as it was now made public on anglo too, and we still haven't gotten a satisfactory answer in the nordics thread I made, I'll repost it here.


    For those of you who are unaware what I'm talking about:


    [Anglosphere] Travian 4.4/Legends Changelog


    Quote

    - Pushing protection limitation on raiding alliance members will be applied to all other players, even if they are not part of the same alliance. Loyalty decrease is now possible between alliance and confederation members. NAP still protects from conquering. Read more here: https://blog.travian.com/wp-co…ng-Protection-Changes.pdf

    I know that TG had decided to change the pushing protection limitations, and then apply them to non-afiliated accounts too... But this makes it seem like the current pushing protection limitations will be applied server-wide? If this is the case, you would only be able to raid 2 hours of production every 7 days from accounts smaller than your own, even if having no connection to them at all. Is this correct?


    Or does this update contain the new pushing protection limitations too, even though it isn't stated?


    Stellamini   Ridder Huma   Ameno



    Keep in mind - while the LoT participants did agree on setting limitations to raiding, they wanted a complete rework of raiding limitations. This was to reduce the use of raiding tech accounts. The restrictions would be far more lenient than alliance restrictions though. I do not remember the specifics, but we're talking something like only being able to raid 15 hours of production from an account per day, but with several days in advance, so it wouldn't hurt players clearing defense to raid (that is, with one account raiding. Other accounts would be able to raid the rest of the resources. So it would have minimal impact for ordinary raiding. It would only impact normal raiding if one for some strange reason had found a farm that none else found, and raided it alone for more than a week).


    With this, however, it seems like TG are rolling out the currrent alliance restrictions instead. To summarize what this would mean:


    can send 2 production hours to bigger player (7 days in advance) but nothing if your account is smaller than 40 population. (this would mean you could only raid 14 hours of production from an account smaller than yours, per week.)

    can send 3 production hours to smaller player (7 days in advance) but nothing if your account is smaller than 40 population. (this would mean you could only raid 21 hours of production from an account larger than yours, per week.)


    This is compared to no restrictions currently.

  • "(this would mean you could only raid 14 hours of production from an account smaller than yours, per week.)"


    This is something that will completely kill the game for many reasons. From the top of my head, the main one would be not capability of feeding your hammer throughout the whole server, especially from mid to end game. GL feeding those WW hammers when you can't raid shit anymore.

  • An acual serious post.
    Thank you mr Wishmaster, lets make them revert this change so we can keep on forum fighting.

    TT final 2015 - Das Båt (SE)
    TT Qualify RU 2016 - Das Båt (Cerber-DD)
    TT final 2016 - illicit Ping, Pong & PangPang (Def&Dest)
    TT Qualify RU 2017 - Chip&Dale #1 off (CerbeR)
    TT Final 2017 - Chip&Dale (CerbeR)
    TT Qualify RU 2018 - ChipDale #1 pop (CerbeR)
    TT Final 2018 - Chip&Dale (WW BP release) (CerbeR-I)
    SE3 2017 - Krokodil
    Se1 2017-2018 Garbage Bag #1 Def (SKRÄP)
    S6 Anglosphere - Mimer (Bifrost)
    Active -
    TT Qualify RU 2019 - Chip&Dale (PoweR)
    Nordics 4 - Morgoth (Midgård)

  • Well if the main effect is the difficulty of feeding late game WWK hammers/rammers by raiding can't reistrictions simply be lifted (or raised substantially) after the plans come out?

    No, that's just one thing i could think of.


    You can't allow players to raid only 2 hours of production per day. It's ridiculous. It kills the farming and will kill the game.

  • I second that wishmaster3  
    On LOT we were discussing "tech accounts" (imo - I am a strict fighter against techs - nothing else than externally played multi accounts).

    Unfortunately, it seems the majority agrees on "tech" usage because it is 'helping your team with resources' similiar to defense you offer to your fellow ally mates.

    This rose the question why - if it's 'team play' - providing resources _within_ your alliance is restricted by pushing protection. Or, in other words, why could you be more helpful to your 'team' if you stay outside alliance - which is imo the equivalent term for 'team' in TL?

    So _if_ we agree (concerning myself I'd rather say: if we are forced to accept) that playing a tech account is considered part of strategy and team play, WHY then restrict raiding and chiefing within the alliance? This was, as to my memory, the core of the discussion we had.

    I admit, I didn't follow the discussions of numbers, percentage and days in advance and what not really closely, it was too fast (and for a part too chaotic) for me. But I do remember well that i.e. we had always worked on a solution that a) keeps macro raiding attractive and beneficial and b) would still allow to empty warehouses and granaries of i.e. a hammer village when performing an op and leave troops to starvation if no precautions were taken.

    All I can hope for is that we have understood the announcement of the update completely wrong and there is no such change planned as you have pointed out above. This needs to be clarified _urgently_.



    "Between impulse and action there is a realm of good taste begging for your acquaintance."
    (the doctor, voy4/25)

    Post was edited 2 times, last by Schmitz' Katze ().

  • But I do remember well that i.e. we had always worked on a solution that a) keeps macro raiding attractive and beneficial

    And what about micro farming? I assume that's something you don't care about as you're not doing it so you have no problem screwing everyone else who does and destroy the game for them.

  • you don't care about as you're not doing it so you have no problem screwing everyone else .

    You are shooting at the wrong target tomi . You have no idea how I play the game. You have no idea whether I raid or not. And you seem to assume I am ego and generally have a bad character.
    Mind me not replying to insults? Welcome.



    "Between impulse and action there is a realm of good taste begging for your acquaintance."
    (the doctor, voy4/25)

  • Also interesting why this was implemented first on anglo which is not exactly teches powerhouse and not put on a domain that embraces the culture.

  • You are shooting at the wrong target tomi . You have no idea how I play the game. You have no idea whether I raid or not. And you seem to assume I am ego and generally have a bad character.
    Mind me not replying to insults? Welcome.

    Well, you literally just said you always worked on a solution for a macro raiding to keep being attractive and beneficial, which means you don't care about micro raiding.


    Also interesting why this was implemented first on anglo which is not exactly teches powerhouse and not put on a domain that embraces the culture.

    Why would they? That's life in general. Test on smaller/weaker first to see how it goes.

  • Also interesting why this was implemented first on anglo which is not exactly teches powerhouse and not put on a domain that embraces the culture.

    Pretty sure every domain gets it just that Nordics & Anglosphere admins were faster with announcements.

    TT final 2015 - Das Båt (SE)
    TT Qualify RU 2016 - Das Båt (Cerber-DD)
    TT final 2016 - illicit Ping, Pong & PangPang (Def&Dest)
    TT Qualify RU 2017 - Chip&Dale #1 off (CerbeR)
    TT Final 2017 - Chip&Dale (CerbeR)
    TT Qualify RU 2018 - ChipDale #1 pop (CerbeR)
    TT Final 2018 - Chip&Dale (WW BP release) (CerbeR-I)
    SE3 2017 - Krokodil
    Se1 2017-2018 Garbage Bag #1 Def (SKRÄP)
    S6 Anglosphere - Mimer (Bifrost)
    Active -
    TT Qualify RU 2019 - Chip&Dale (PoweR)
    Nordics 4 - Morgoth (Midgård)

  • This is something that kills the game. Point. (and I'm told by a reputable source that also the Merchants are affected in the same way)


    If I'm understanding it right, this was an idea meant to be discussed , refined , tested , refined again, and "eventually' in the future applied (based on the results of the tests, and the tweaks required).

    Instead "someone" decided unilaterally to implement it without even doing a test, without even informing the Tour people of what was happening, and to add salt on the wound, on running servers that are in advanced stages.


    Well, I think I should compliment the manager that had the idea... if he wanted to sink this game, he just managed.

    If this change , in these terms , is introduced, I would simply recommend to look for another game, delete, and ask all the players to do a chargeback. CC and paypal people can cancel up to 6 months.


    And good luck to Tg


    I'm playing since 2005, but now I've been finally given a reason to quit.


    I'm not sure if this post will be edited or censored, as an old player I put 0 faith in "freedom of speech" since gagging has always been a tactic from the management.


    I do think "we" deserve that the actual managers come here to discuss with us ( yes, I know it's not going to happen. We'll be ignored, as usual... but if by any chance someone forwards things high enough vs stopping at the rubberwall, please mention clearly that we are the paying customers, and that the idea is that the customers are the kings. While here the customers are usually considered like i@@@@s )

    Marduk , R.Unite leader on old S5.com
    MCE member on s4.com
    Ass , Best/Nest on old s6.com
    Teoavo75 , Rep SW - now *****Rep - leader on s1.com , GF Hold member
    Teoavo75 , marduk , tiberius , nexus - SGR
    Drei - CWL

  • I love how TG is doing these changes as they're pleased, even with the ongoing servers that are already in deep stage. Changing the rules of the game while the game is played? A big NO NO.


    Imagine marathon runners are preparing for their race. The day comes, they start the race and then, in the middle of race, a new rule gets introduced. Instead of running a planned 5km, a race has been extended to 10km and you have to run backwards.


    Great work TG! Great work on respecting your players and your customers who spend hundreds on your game. Some even thousands.


    Customer is always right. Have you even heard of that? I don't think so.

  • Unpopular opinion:

    TG IS on the right track.


    Such a change should mean any future tweaks to the code only require 1 line to be changed - the line representing the percentage of an account's resources that can be raided. In an environment of mass spaghetti code, any simplification is a good step towards the future (all those wanting a TG app, this helps).

    Not only that but rule simplification also helps out the newer players to understand the game. There is already a massive learning curve; does it really need to be any larger?


    These changes directly affect the pushing rules. The TG Answers from the COM domain tend to be the most up to date (even if still woefully inaccurate at times). In the grand scheme, this change is the removal of 2 lines from the rules.


    Going by the blog post they had put out in the past alongside the survey they performed, they do seem to be moving onto implementing the 'Possible Additional Changes' they had highlighted.

    To quote the blog (spoiler tags for those who already have read it and know):

    They've missed the last part of the possible changes but since everything else appears to have been forthcoming, another hotpatch wouldn't be unexpected.



    While I can and do agree that the limit of 2hrs of account production / day does seem a little low, how many people are actually tracking the income an individual farm account makes them?

    Given most farms across a server tend to be farmed by the same farmers (by virtue of using similar farm finder tools which rely on the daily sql dump i.e. everyone is using the same information) how many individual farms are actually providing daily resources above that limit? For most farms on farm lists, I can hardly see this change as being impactful.


    Having said this, you know what hasn't changed? Being able to perpetually make 1:1.2 trade offers on the market place for eternity. People might actually use it now which will only serve to benefit the less active or newbier players in the long run.


    People said they would quit over the results of the final last year. I still tend to see the same people posting.

    People said they would quit over allowing 'technical accounts' into the game. Those people are still posting.

    If we're being honest with ourselves, we won't leave, TG will go through a change upon seeing player sentiment and everyone will go back to a stage acting as if there was never a change to begin with.

    Same thing happened with the rally point restrictions. Same thing happened with the introduction of heroes and artifacts. Same thing will happen now.


    In short,

    Is the change potentially metagame changing? Yes.

    Do I think the change is as big as people are making it out to be? No.


    /prepares for the imminent 100+ dislikes


    Jonothan Crane wrote:

    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  • you really are something extra

  • how many individual farms are actually providing daily resources above that limit? For most farms on farm lists, I can hardly see this change as being impactful.

    You seem to forget that on smaller servers (anything that isnt com/ru/tr tbh) wont have 84+ raiders so im pretty sure this will affect raiders massivly on thoose smaller servers.

    TT final 2015 - Das Båt (SE)
    TT Qualify RU 2016 - Das Båt (Cerber-DD)
    TT final 2016 - illicit Ping, Pong & PangPang (Def&Dest)
    TT Qualify RU 2017 - Chip&Dale #1 off (CerbeR)
    TT Final 2017 - Chip&Dale (CerbeR)
    TT Qualify RU 2018 - ChipDale #1 pop (CerbeR)
    TT Final 2018 - Chip&Dale (WW BP release) (CerbeR-I)
    SE3 2017 - Krokodil
    Se1 2017-2018 Garbage Bag #1 Def (SKRÄP)
    S6 Anglosphere - Mimer (Bifrost)
    Active -
    TT Qualify RU 2019 - Chip&Dale (PoweR)
    Nordics 4 - Morgoth (Midgård)

  • This is nice. It will be fun to structure a network of players to raid a tech for one account now - instead of the old boring one, where you just send raid yourself. I guess 30 players should suffice to raid a tech dry and make a dedicated village for the main off guy to raid from them instead. So, instead of A > B, it will be A > {C,D,E...} > B. We can do this!

    Noel, 8:13 PM

    She breaks my heart, I break their armies