[Discussion] Version 4.6!

*dusts off jacket* It has been a while, seems like a good moment to drop in and express some thoughts.

Regionalization

This was bound to happen and something I had supported even before I became Ambassador. The size of the global community (and the changing dynamics of online games in general) made this a smart move. Not adding the 5 tribes to all of them makes sense since the tribes have still not been properly balanced.

Map Size

Another inevitability. I'm glad the cropper amounts have been fixed (though it remains to be seen what this looks like in practice), but has cropper distribution been fixed?

UI Langauge

Expected and necessary.

Server Rotation

Nice to spell it out. Makes planning for new servers easier. Only 1 3x server on the "fantastic 4" seems insufficient, though I say this as an observer and not an actual speed player. Glad to see 5x and 10x going to be a more regularly occurrence as some people just flat out prefer that insanity.

Truces

America retains Easter, Christmas and NY which I like.

Task System

I've not actually tried it out myself but it is intriguing. Good to see it rolled out globally as its something that has needed updating for many years. From what I've heard it speeds up settling for v2 which will certainly throw some wrenches into the usual game flow. Remains to be seen if it will be good or bad, at a minimum it will just be a rough transition for some. Egyptian nerf is LOL - see comment under regionalization.

Oasis Change

I like it. I think it may address the early game tech and/or multi hero use for clearing oasis. Though I think unique oasis instances would have been a more complete solution. I still see the dedicated among us working around this particular fix. The less ethically-minded among us have proven quite resilient against measures taken against their behavior.

Re-Arranging Buildings

A new way for me to blow gold yay! I expect to spend at least 500 gold per server on this. Thank you for that. I feel though it may have been a better idea to wrap this into some sort of package and allow players to do it in an unlimited fashion.

Vacation Mode Changes

Oh hey, this looks familiar. It's good but I've come to be partial to just removing vacation mode entirely. Still, this is a positive change.

Hospital

Mixed emotions. First thought - I NEED MORE BUILDING SLOTS

Gold Shop/GTL

Oh? Interesting.

Art

Good! Only took... uh *checks watch*, dang my watch doesn't help measure over a year.

Overall

Good direction. Certainly, a culmination of many years of advocacy, good to see all the things finally reaching implementation. Still, a lot of work to be done, which assuming I don't let my jacket get dusty again I will post about it soon. I don't mean to rain on the parade, today is a good day but we can't take our eyes off the ball. There is so much to address still but I hope this is an indication of a willingness and ability to address many major challenges still facing the game.

Sample of Major Challenges Remaining

• Tribe Balance
• Server Length
• Endgame
• Techs

P.S ThomasGB - What does the regionalization change do to CM/forum/HoF things? Also can we get the gold prices for USD$ published?

- oasis changes are probably good.

- I can't really judge the map. I don't know how it changed exactly, but sounds good.

- The vacation mode should still be completely removed. Anything less than that is not interesting enough to even read.

- I really hate the hospital. Seems to make the same mistakes as Kingdoms did...Again. I dislike anything that makes the game easier, or disturbs the risk/reward balance. Things like bandages should be removed from the game, and adding more bandage-like things is another step to further screw things up.

I'll say that the changes that have been made are well received and greatly overdue in the eyes of some. I approve of them all honestly.

I'll be interested to judge the map with increased croppers because as it stands cropper allotment and their respective oasis distribution was just unacceptable the past couple of years. The fact that people have been outright violating rules using techs to gain an advantage to snatch up all of the best croppers really put a damper on the game the past few years. There needs to be more 100%+ 15c croppers in every quad and I'm looking forward to seeing that hopefully be the case on the new maps. All players deserve to have at least a somewhat decent capitol cropper and I'm hoping you've all rectified this issue.

You all still need to fix the tech issue. You need to ban them. You either need to reinstate the old rule or create a new one that outright bans teching. People are just plain running multis with techs. We can sit here and deny it all we want but that is exactly what is happening. Sure there are some people playing by the rules with techs but even the legitimate rules give a completely unfair advantage to people just playing the game normally. A lot of really competent players have already left the game because of techs and it's only going to continue the longer something isn't done about it.

A few questions have come to mind today:

• How will legacy GTL links operate?
• Has the full new task list been placed anywhere? (like the Answers site)
• Has there been any discussion about making changes to the hospital? I do wonder how "balanced" the current implementation will be among "regular" servers. I also recall reading somewhere where someone suggested an overview for hospital troops? I don't remember where or when but that is definitely something that needs to be worked into the plus overview tabs somewhere. (which as a side note could use some re-working in general)
• What will the new server organization mean for the Ambassador program?
  • How many Ambassadors will be allotted?
  • What will the connection be to the in-person summit (if any, assuming this returns in a post-COVID world - 2022 by my estimation)
  • When will Ambasasdors be elected, will they be elected?

Kudos to Travian for FINALLY making some of the changes so desperately needed. Had they done so 5 years ago, it may not have gotten to the point they had to consolidate so severely.

My sincere thanks to Blackblade and all the ambassadors for the hours invested, migraines suffered, and the grief taken as ambassadors in order to help make some of this happen. While I know it was a joint effort with the other ambassadors, I dont know them by name.

While this is far from perfect, it is the first serious progress I have seen in years, and the first demonstration that Travian has listened to its clientele.

ThomasGB wrote:

- The vacation mode is still appreciated in many Communities that don't want to get rid of it. TG has to take this into consideration. We also need to remember that this mode was a Community request for quite some time in the past before it became a feature.

- The idea behind the hospital is to trigger more fights/action since it's easier to rebuild.

As far as the vacation mode is concerned, I understand but really don't agree with it considering the abuse. And that's besides the fact that sitters and duals exist for when you want to be away for a while. Also, the fact that it apparently was a community request really doesn't change anything with that. If the community requests a piece of sh*t, and you implement the piece of sh*t exactly as requested, it's still a piece of sh*t

The reasoning given for why the hospital exists is also EXACTLY the same as what was often said in Travian Kingdoms for all kinds of features. They tried to give you more resources, bandages, troops from tasks, a faster early game, etc all in the spirit of "more fights/action", "less boring stuff". Of course, seemingly without realizing that the lack of these things exist for a reason - scarcity makes planning more important. A slow early game is important for pacing. Having troops dying means every attack is meaningful because you don't want to lose troops. It also is important for pacing, lulls in wars. With features like the hospital, you change the risk/reward evaluation. You massively inflate troop numbers. Every attack becomes less meaningful. Have they really thought this through and made a conscious decision to make more casual gameplay, with more but more meaningless action? Because I'm guessing they just randomly came up with the hospital idea based on a gut feeling...

In theory you can get 1/3rd back for free with bandages, and of the remaining 2/3rd you can still rebuild what, half of that? Can somebody do the math of what this would mean for 1. an offense account that loses a large hammer in a village with a lvl 20 hospital 2. A defense account which builds and loses defence in say 5 villages in one go, each village with a lvl 20 hospital?

I don't know. If you lose a hammer or lots of defense troops, you should suffer a bit. Trying to take that "pain" away, which is always at the root of Travian's decision making for some reason, since they seem to always want to make this game more casual even though it keeps destroying the game further, is just misguided.

Thank you for the incredibly detailed response ThomasGB

I understand the complications with it on the higher end to be honest but on another level I don't understand the complications with it because the solution is very simple.

Plain and simple, most tech's are multi accounts. Some aren't but it's pretty blatantly obvious to tell which are which. I can live with tech's existing in the realm of being PD's and troop storage but the reality of what tech's are being used for is funneling of resources to get them to grant accounts the ability to sim fields and troops at a rate that is unattainable to those of us following the rules. Right now I can spend 10$ on the most rudimentary of VPN's with an IP scrambler and run a multi account tech pyramid. The only thing that stops me from doing it is the fact that I have some semblance of ethics that is waning with each day as I see blatant cheating happening day in and out on multiple servers to the point where the game isn't even a level playing field anymore. A lot of HOF players got to where they did by outright running multis. (to those of you who did it on your own merits, Kudos to you. Seriously. Great work)

There's a fine line between what is considered helping the team and helping an individual account. There are no rules on this currently and I just can't fathom why the rule of 'accounts must play within their own interest' was ever removed except for a money grab from TG because they knew people would be doing exactly what they are doing now. The consequences from this have cost TG hundreds if not thousands of players who could have easily net TG at least 200+$ from each player per server.

This needs to be on the top of the list in my opinion. There are so many things that have been unbalanced about the game for years from the tribes not even being remotely on and equal balanced playing field to unethical tricks to outperform other players by what used to constitute an automatic ban and deletion of an account. I say a bad word in an IGM and I get 10% of my population nerfed but people are getting a complete reprieve to run a swath of multis to outperform any possible individual account or even an equal group of individual accounts.... I've got issues with that.

The solution here needs to honestly be an ambiguous rule that needs to be personally enforced by people and not an automated system. It needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis with a guiding set of parameters that have a wide berth. The rule of accounts being played within their own best interests was just that rule and I think TG hated the idea that they had to actually have people really looking into it instead of just setting up an automated system to screen it out. There is no solution that will be considered acceptable by the community that doesn't involve active moderation by people making real an valid judgement calls that are subject to review and criticism. The days of covering this stuff in a big shroud of secrecy complimented by a cone of silence need to end.

Your version 4.6 is terrible and you will only lose more players with this horrible update. Dumbing down the game and giving Hero XP and resources for simply developing cities is one of the stupidest ideas I have seen. You are literally rewarding players for doing what they should be doing already. I guess in today's society where 'Everyone is a winner!' it seems like a good idea but I (for one) won't be playing Travian again under the feel-good player-coddling changes you are making.

You have turned what was once a great game into a complete joke. You could have left a couple of servers under the old rules for those that want more of a challenge instead of forcing everyone to play the same way. But who cares what the players want when you are in pursuit of as much money as you can squeeze out of this game before it becomes extinct. AMIRIGHT?

DabCrab wrote:

Plain and simple, most tech's are multi accounts.

i get so sick of this argument. Everyone that I know who uses techs, actually asks real friends to run the account. Someone who doesn't have time to run a proper acct to a standard required by good alliances, can still make a really useful contribution by helping their friends by playing as a tech. I play on 2 servers and that is a stretch, so if a friend asked me to join a 3rd server, I'd only consider it as a tech, as i wouldn't commit to more servers full time.

Its just too easy for people being outplayed to cry about techs.

Anaethema_US wrote:

Your version 4.6 is terrible and you will only lose more players with this horrible update. Dumbing down the game and giving Hero XP and resources for simply developing cities is one of the stupidest ideas I have seen. You are literally rewarding players for doing what they should be doing already. I guess in today's society where 'Everyone is a winner!' it seems like a good idea but I (for one) won't be playing Travian again under the feel-good player-coddling changes you are making.

You have turned what was once a great game into a complete joke. You could have left a couple of servers under the old rules for those that want more of a challenge instead of forcing everyone to play the same way. But who cares what the players want when you are in pursuit of as much money as you can squeeze out of this game before it becomes extinct. AMIRIGHT?

You have misunderstood the 4.6 version, it just speeds up the process especially at the start of the game, which up to now was quite frankly, boring. It doesn't make everyone a winner, only mega metas at end game do that

As for leaving old versions running, its usually the same people complaining about techs who hark back to the old versions, when in fact it was much easier to abuse rules in the older versions.

4.6 has the best changes I've seen in the game for years. I still think pushing rules are too draconian, and i'm not convinced about the hospital building, but everything else is a step forward.

The biggest issue ruining the game, is the changes intended to curb techs, but actually inadvertently affect genuine game play

alestorm wrote:

i get so sick of this argument. Everyone that I know who uses techs, actually asks real friends to run the account. Someone who doesn't have time to run a proper acct to a standard required by good alliances, can still make a really useful contribution by helping their friends by playing as a tech. I play on 2 servers and that is a stretch, so if a friend asked me to join a 3rd server, I'd only consider it as a tech, as i wouldn't commit to more servers full time.

Its just too easy for people being outplayed to cry about techs.

I've been in leadership on over a dozen teams in the last decade. I've actively reported what I know to be multi account and nothing gets done at all because $$$. You can say what you'd like but I know what I know. I was a MOD for two years for the forums and I was privileged enough to be friends with a lot of MH's. Your statement is a complete contrast to what we knew as a fact and why many of us left the volunteer position. The running of multis and password sharing has been a norm for quite a long time. I've opposed it at every step of the way and nothing gets done about it. When they allowed tech's it flat out got worse.

The main point is that Tech's that only existing to funnel resources is still completely messed up and unbalanced. There is no outplaying that. I've been beaten fair and square by a multitude of groups that I hold a great deal of respect for who didn't cheat to win. They just whooped my butt and my teams collective butts with no tech's or multis. The last, almost three years, of techs has completely unbalanced this game. There is no defending it. It shouldn't be allowed in the game and it was actually against the rules for the majority of Travian's existence. The only reason they removed the rule is because they were lazy and didn't want to enforce the rule and it gained them profits to do so. Now they've reached the point where the money they gain from people basically cheating isn't offsetting the number of players leaving the game. Tech's need to be banned. Plain and simple.

alestorm wrote:

i get so sick of this argument. Everyone that I know who uses techs, actually asks real friends to run the account. Someone who doesn't have time to run a proper acct to a standard required by good alliances, can still make a really useful contribution by helping their friends by playing as a tech. I play on 2 servers and that is a stretch, so if a friend asked me to join a 3rd server, I'd only consider it as a tech, as i wouldn't commit to more servers full time.

in the worlds ive played in the past or atm, 90% of the techs are just multis

DabCrab wrote:

I've been in leadership on over a dozen teams in the last decade. I've actively reported what I know to be multi account and nothing gets done at all because $$$. You can say what you'd like but I know what I know. I was a MOD for two years for the forums and I was privileged enough to be friends with a lot of MH's. Your statement is a complete contrast to what we knew as a fact and why many of us left the volunteer position. The running of multis and password sharing has been a norm for quite a long time. I've opposed it at every step of the way and nothing gets done about it. When they allowed tech's it flat out got worse.

The main point is that Tech's that only existing to funnel resources is still completely messed up and unbalanced. There is no outplaying that. I've been beaten fair and square by a multitude of groups that I hold a great deal of respect for who didn't cheat to win. They just whooped my butt and my teams collective butts with no tech's or multis. The last, almost three years, of techs has completely unbalanced this game. There is no defending it. It shouldn't be allowed in the game and it was actually against the rules for the majority of Travian's existence. The only reason they removed the rule is because they were lazy and didn't want to enforce the rule and it gained them profits to do so. Now they've reached the point where the money they gain from people basically cheating isn't offsetting the number of players leaving the game. Tech's need to be banned. Plain and simple.

Over the last 9 or 10 yrs I've also led, followed, been techer, been techee, and priviliged enough to play with MHs and to have dualled with a MH, and i know what i know.

Just to be clear, I am 100% against multi accounts, but real people playing a supporting role is totally different . The number of people multi-accounting has decreased in my experience, especially more recently, as it isn't worth spending money on a game with the risk of getting a ban. You also can't funnel resources unless the account is in a confed. Most of the alliances I play, have a "main" wing and a "tech" wing which has to be a confed otherwise no resource push, but its severely limited anyway, and no troops parking. It's a team game, and real techs - not multis - are a valid part of the team

Bum Bum wrote:

in the worlds ive played in the past or atm, 90% of the techs are just multis

that's just not been my experience, i currently play alongside 45 real people playing as techs, i play with zero people multi-accounting

alestorm wrote:

that's just not been my experience, i currently play alongside 45 real people playing as techs, i play with zero people multi-accounting

In my post I was pretty clear I love the idea of support roles but that isn't what is happening. The multi accounting with techs is real. I know people doing it right now. I report it when it's my own team mates and the enemies doing it. Nothing gets done no matter how much proof I present. Personal farming is happening. Once artifacts spawn they just set up accounts to push the artifact holders account nonstop. People wanna run PD's or be garages for troops I have respect for that but one account only existing for the sole benefit of another account is just completely unfair any way you cut it. It isn't what the game is supposed to be about.

I had to sit in skype rooms for close to three years listening to the rage of fellow volunteer staff members being unable to enforce the very rules that made this game fair. How can there even be tournament servers when the very premise of them is violated by the fact the rules aren't enforced or more importantly get altered to favor profits over having a fair game?

It is so easy to put a stop to this all and it's not being done. If it wouldn't change anything and isn't happening as so many claim... why not do it then? More than 10% of your accounts resources per a day shouldn't be going to another accounts artifact village. Accounts that only send resources to one account the entire server should be banned. An account only being farmed by one player and defending against the rest of the players should be immediately deleted. I literally have documented accounts of all these things happening and nothing has ever been done about it.

alestorm wrote:

You have misunderstood the 4.6 version, it just speeds up the process especially at the start of the game, which up to now was quite frankly, boring. It doesn't make everyone a winner, only mega metas at end game do that

The unchecked hubris of this sentence is staggering. Take your Travian apologist rhetoric and shove it up your fluffy unicorn.

I hate the changes and won't be giving Travian any more of my money because the game is no longer any fun for me. Is that simple enough for you to understand?

in the good old days, we just intimidated and threatened smaller, weaker alliances into paying protection resources. No need for techs then. But TG screwed that up too.

Anaethema_US wrote:

The unchecked hubris of this sentence is staggering. Take your Travian apologist rhetoric and shove it up your fluffy unicorn.

I hate the changes and won't be giving Travian any more of my money because the game is no longer any fun for me. Is that simple enough for you to understand?

Clever. I've always enjoyed the insults that result from someone being unable to articulate their argument and counter mine. The only thing i shoved up my fluffy unicorn was my head, and that was only to see things from your point of view

DabCrab wrote:

In my post I was pretty clear I love the idea of support roles but that isn't what is happening. The multi accounting with techs is real. I know people doing it right now. I report it when it's my own team mates and the enemies doing it. Nothing gets done no matter how much proof I present. Personal farming is happening. Once artifacts spawn they just set up accounts to push the artifact holders account nonstop. People wanna run PD's or be garages for troops I have respect for that but one account only existing for the sole benefit of another account is just completely unfair any way you cut it. It isn't what the game is supposed to be about.

I had to sit in skype rooms for close to three years listening to the rage of fellow volunteer staff members being unable to enforce the very rules that made this game fair. How can there even be tournament servers when the very premise of them is violated by the fact the rules aren't enforced or more importantly get altered to favor profits over having a fair game?

It is so easy to put a stop to this all and it's not being done. If it wouldn't change anything and isn't happening as so many claim... why not do it then? More than 10% of your accounts resources per a day shouldn't be going to another accounts artifact village. Accounts that only send resources to one account the entire server should be banned. An account only being farmed by one player and defending against the rest of the players should be immediately deleted. I literally have documented accounts of all these things happening and nothing has ever been done about it.

you contradict yourself, 1st sentence is contradicted by your last paragraph. "multi accounting with techs is real" also doesn't make sense. Multi accounting might be happening, but not with techs since they are two different things. Multi accounting is 1 person with more than 1 account, techs are 1 person per account. Therefore a tech is not a multi. A tech is a support account which you claim to approve of. Just because someone calls their multi a tech, does not make it a tech, it is still a multi - which i agree needs dealt with.