[Discussion] Version 4.6!

  • There's in practice no real difference between what is being called techs and what is being called multiaccounts. As Dabcrab says, the "support role" that techs supposedly fulfill is an ok idea, but isn't what is happening. The vast majority of techs are simply multiaccounts. I suspect alestorm knows this too, but is either trolling or too invested in the idea that since he knows a few supposedly actual techs, the majority of the rest of the techs aren't multiaccounts either. It's just not true.

  • there is a huge difference, being supported by friends is nothing like multi accounts. I often dual with a MH so any alliance i play in has to play by the rules or they get banned. I'm not even allowed to send slightly controversial igms otherwise my dual wouldn't play with me again.


    To the people who keep insisting that what is claimed to be techs is actually multis, I'd say to report them. If it is your own allies with multis, then report them too or find a more honest team to play with. If it is enemies you are accusing of using multis, then check that you actually know they are multis, since it could be that they just have more friends than you

  • I will avoid the sheer amount of quotes I would need to properly respond so I'll just leave a few broad thoughts:


    1. Some teams have the "majority" of techs as accounts started and actually run by a unique person all round
    2. Some teams have the "majority" of techs as accounts started by unique people, but as the server continues more and more are essentially multi-accounts - with either token logging by the original person or token logging in via TOR
    3. Some teams have the "majority" of techs as accounts started as pure multi-accounts


    I would argue (1) is VERY rare and in my experience, it has been both on my own teams and those I've played against. (2) is probably the most common, with (3) limited to certain dark corners of the game (though corners which have become more common).


    (1) is obviously the most legal scenario, I said majority because I highly doubt there isn't at least one account in 99% of alliances that ends up under #2. My issue with (1) is it just fuels the dynamic where numbers wins servers. It encourages more techs, more confedding etc. I think the game is more interesting when there are at least 4 viable teams playing to win the game and that is becoming increasingly rare.


    (2) Is a common scenario for a couple of reasons, one of which is the length of servers and the difficulty of keeping engaged with multiple servers over that period. I've never been on a team that hasn't lost at least 10% of the players over the course of a server, even on teams that are by and large pre-made. Token logging in / TOR becomes to the play to ensure that even if the player is lost, the account can be retained because it's needed to address the fact numbers tend to win (in the majority of cases, there are exceptions of course). There are other reasons but the general gist comes back to the fact people leave and accounts are needed.


    (3) Fairly rare. It's also quite hard to have an accurate count to differentiate between (2). This is obviously the most against both the rules and spirit of the game but it happens. It is more prevalent in some places than others but I think it becomes more of an "option" in the mind of some teams as people struggle to muster the bodies for scenario (2).


    Scenario (1) is the most optimal for any team. Accounts with a full-time and dedicated owner regardless of account type are always preferential to a sitter run or TOR run account. Well perhaps bot run accounts are an exception but I know little about that but those with access to such tools may find (3) more appealing.


    What it comes down to is the number of accounts. With each server often having 4 or fewer competitive teams it's about running a team with the most accounts possible (in many but not all cases). Even poorly run techs can be a huge boon to the main accounts on a team. Techs make it hard for most teams to play in the spirit of the game. I for one do not know 120+ people I can count on to run two fully functional wings of an alliance, let alone 3 or 4. Between those that have left the game for various reasons (burnout being the major one, caused again in part due to server length) and those that need a dual to afford the game / have good account coverage / make it so they don't burn out its an impossible task for teams. It only gets worse if you aren't on a pre-formed team.


    There is something broken in the game design and mechanics. I think it has always been broken but it has only gotten worse with certain changes but definitely by the reduction in player count. I'm not sure the best way to fix it, in part because I'm not sure exactly where it's broken. I can identify parts that are broken, but is it broken in aggregate? Does something become fixed when something else is addressed? There are deep questions to be asked and answered. I wish I had the time to put in to figure it out, that is why I'm not Ambassador anymore. This game needs a major rethink and that is a full-time job. I don't know that the team and current feedback structure is designed in a way that can accomplish that. Though that also assumes the game is fundamentally fixable.


    The only thing I know for certain, techs are a problem. Are they a symptom? Are they a cause? Perhaps both? It seems to depend on who you ask, which is part of the problem. There are few issues that I've seen much broad agreement on in the community, whether it's issue identification or issue fixes. I tend to think they are a problem. I've had to go from saying, I don't want techs on my team to "I need techs to maximize team performance".


    Circling back, 4.6 makes some good steps, others remain to be seen but there is still work to be done.

    Former Anglosphere Ambassador 2019-2020


  • the new sitting rules are not ideal, don't know why that was put in place. It won't prevent techs at all, if anything it will encourage people to just try find a way to multi.


    When playing a tech acct, i log on daily so the acc doesn't go yellow, or even if i can't because of work etc i log on at least weekly. So it wont affect how i play as a tech


    What the new rules will do, is affect end game alliances when some members get bored and don't log in, those accts are still important for the alliance and usually sitters keep them going and set up trade routes to ww etc, but now they will get locked out quicker. Maybe they will just ask for the password and try to find a way to multi instead...


    Just another example of unintended consequences from ineffective changes designed to curb techs, but actually affect how others will need to play

  • It won't prevent techs at all, if anything it will encourage people to just try find a way to multi.

    That's the whole point I've been trying to make mate.

    Everything ultimately ends up as multis. Pretty much 75% of techs end up as sitter run multis or actual password holding multis before a server ends.

    Techs just need to be banned outright because any rule they make to try and curb something that shouldn't even exist in the first place just ends up as a TOR run account.

  • when i play as tech it is never sitter run for more than a few days, and i only play as tech when i don't have time to play a proper acct but still want to help (and keep in contact with) friends, so the point i'm making is that the rules are actually pushing people into cheating because they keep making it more difficult for real genuine techs - which are support accounts, not multis

  • Which within the rules would be fine. The problem is that the rules have been changed over the last few years which has caused massive issues. The fact an account can exist to do absolutely nothing but store troops is a bit funky but kind of understandable. Garages are a thing with wheat artifacts and all but it's being abused to an extent that is just a completely unfair advantage. The idea that an account can do nothing but ship all of it's resources in an endless stream to an artifact village is completely and entirely messed up. The fact that four plus accounts can just ship their resources to one account with an artifact in the hammer village and use all those resources to build one massive EGH that would be a mathematically impossible hammer without that weird rule circumvention is just atrocious. Those are things that are blatantly allowed that just plain shouldn't be. That in and of itself being legal pushes people towards making multis. That might be happening with a tech that is actually run by a person but typically it is not ever within the rules.

    Now things we know are happening are the violation of push limits. People are using accounts like personal farms. People have techs make them villages that they just chief perfectly built for them. If you've ever played a finals server you know exactly what I'm talking about. The cheating is horrendous. This is a competitive game and the rules need to be followed. The rules, more importantly, need to make sense.

    The responses to these statements are always the same. 'JuSt GeT bEtTeR aT tEaMwOrK" and 'HaVe MoRe FrIeNdS'. We all know what is happening. It's the circumvention of the rules to give a completely unfair advantage against the competition. TG has lost thousands of players over the last few years and they are never coming back. This is the main reason why. This game is a massive time and financial commitment and the fact that someone can just do whatever the heck they want and not suffer any consequences is absolutely wild.

    You might not experience these things or have knowledge of them but to deny that it is becoming prevalent on every single server is laughable.

    Post was edited 1 time, last by DabCrab ().

  • ok, maybe finals, i played as tech in balkans or somewhere and i can see that 1 solo player with no techs would struggle, but i played uk servers and anglo servers and there, it is certainly the case that more people are accused of cheating than is actually the case.


    I think that pushing rules are too strict especially within an alliance, and sitter rules are now too strict too, and instead of punishing real people, the focus should be on identifying and banning multis.


    And the biggest pet hate of mine is vacation mode, this needs to go completely, that's what sitters are for (if they are actually allowed to log in for the time the player needs a break...)

  • What you are missing is all of this is cheating.... or rather was. They changed the rules because it was easier than enforcing them. As for your remarks about the UK and Anglo servers. I promise you over half the people accused of running multis in fact are. The push rules aren't remotely strict at all. You shouldn't ever be able to give anyone more than an hours worth of production each day.

    "Every account has to be played to its own benefit and may not be used only to support another account."

    The removal of this rule has destroyed the game.

  • I promise you over half the people accused of running multis in fact are.

    absolute rubbish, you have no idea. Every alliance I am in, people get accused of having multis, and the vast majority is by sore losers, or by people who don't know how to play properly. I have even been in alliances where we were losing and the go to response is "they were cheating" rather than admit the other team was just better. In this forum, i have seen someone accuse the winner of the first 7 day server of cheating, when in fact, the person who won had given a detailed account of how they did it in the official discord.


    I have seen alliances mass report an enemy player in an attempt to get them banned too, maybe there should actually be a punishment for malicious accusations.



    "Every account has to be played to its own benefit and may not be used only to support another account."

    The removal of this rule has destroyed the game.

    on the contrary, it means when my work or RL dictates that i can't spend hours every day on an account, i can help out team mates, i know lots of people who do the same. It keeps people in the game when otherwise they wouldn't have time to play. And why should an enemy get to raid a barely active account and friend, sitter, team mate not be able to? It ridiculous and an indefensible point of view to take.


    As for playing an account for its own benefit, what if a defender needs to push an allied off player so they can cata an enemy, or an off player to push a deffer to replace losses, or allies to push someone who lost fields, or an alliance to push players on a contested border (or in an alliance i'm in now, the grey zone).


    All of this is TEAM WORK and and is being curtailed by stupid rules that don't even have their desired effect, they only make it more difficult for genuine teams.


    On another server I have a diet arte, abd because someone has troops parked on it, I can't send them res when they lost their cap fields, because of these rules. Just yet another example of team play being affected.


    Now it is sitters and there will be more to come just because the people who are crying about techs are shouting the loudest. If you don't like team play, go find a single player game.

  • I see so many disconnects in this convo. Some folks are conflating multi accounts, techs and private farms and lumping them all together.
    Some folks are clinging to the old rule #1 and not realizing it was NEVER enforced to the fullest extent. It could not be or team play would be illegal.
    "all accounts must be played to their OWN benefit"
    Multi accounts are and always have been illegal. And it's time for Travian to quit making excuses about dealing with them. If it takes a total dark web ban (think tor) then so be it. Make your money off of honest players. You'll have more of them if you get rid of multis. Or at least get rid of dark web access for the domains where there is no excuse for using them.
    Private farms are supposed to be dealt with soon. My understanding is that it will include banning or deleting any accounts identified as only allowing 1 player or alliance to benefit from farming them.
    Techs. This is where the arguments start. Two parts once the private farms are dealt with as a separate issue.
    1) garages - Most players agree that these should be allowed if played by active players. A vocal minority does not.
    2) help getting to village two - These are accounts that get deleted usually in the first month of a 1X round. The changes being implemented in 35 hours are in part a reaction from Travian to this. How about those who oppose allowing real players to let their friends help them get a fast start come4 up with targeted suggestions after we all see how the new changes go?

  • I see so many disconnects in this convo. Some folks are conflating multi accounts, techs and private farms and lumping them all together.
    Some folks are clinging to the old rule #1 and not realizing it was NEVER enforced to the fullest extent. It could not be or team play would be illegal.

    The thing is they are all separate things until they are not. The rule was never enforced the way it should have been and that was the problem in the first place. The solution was not to remove the rule and I just can't fathom why they did other than a greedy money grab.

    Multi accounts are and always have been illegal. And it's time for Travian to quit making excuses about dealing with them. If it takes a total dark web ban (think tor) then so be it. Make your money off of honest players. You'll have more of them if you get rid of multis. Or at least get rid of dark web access for the domains where there is no excuse for using them.

    Big Facts

    Private farms are supposed to be dealt with soon. My understanding is that it will include banning or deleting any accounts identified as only allowing 1 player or alliance to benefit from farming them.
    Techs. This is where the arguments start. Two parts once the private farms are dealt with as a separate issue.
    1) garages - Most players agree that these should be allowed if played by active players. A vocal minority does not.
    2) help getting to village two - These are accounts that get deleted usually in the first month of a 1X round. The changes being implemented in 35 hours are in part a reaction from Travian to this. How about those who oppose allowing real players to let their friends help them get a fast start come4 up with targeted suggestions after we all see how the new changes go?

    The garages are fair but the problem is when the account only exists as a garage and a personal defender for one account, that is where the problem ensues. Alliance wide garage is completely acceptable. The fact that it's only benefitting 1 account in most instances is the issue here. A team wants to have a real player that runs defense or a hammer and houses a garage for everyone to store troops into with a wheat arti in their big ole level 21 fields 150% cap with a wheat arti in it thats all fine and dandy. Completely fair and part of team work. The problem is that is not what is happening most of the time. TOR needs to be banned and watch how quick a lot of these things disappear.

    absolute rubbish, you have no idea. Every alliance I am in, people get accused of having multis, and the vast majority is by sore losers, or by people who don't know how to play properly. I have even been in alliances where we were losing and the go to response is "they were cheating" rather than admit the other team was just better. In this forum, i have seen someone accuse the winner of the first 7 day server of cheating, when in fact, the person who won had given a detailed account of how they did it in the official discord.

    I have a better idea than you do. I was staff for nearly three years and I've been leading teams the last 10. I know exactly what I'm talking about. I sat in skype rooms for three plus years with MH's and fellow mods being a part of the actual enforcement team for these very things. I watched staff member after staff member burn out and leave the team because they were so frustrated that the higher ups wouldn't let anyone actually enforce the rules. I watched everyone I had the privilege of working with leave until I couldn't stand it anymore and left myself because there was no possible way to do anything but watch rule after rule be broken. We would sit around for weeks literally compiling exactly how a top account was violating basically every rule and be told that because there was 'no proof' we couldn't do anything. I literally have stacks upon stacks of accounts of players settling before BP is even up by over a day because they used multis to hero bomb oasis to give them a completely unfair advantage over others playing the game within the rules. We watched accounts exist for the sole purpose of just simming villages for an account to chief them completely built up for them. We watched 5 plus account literally only exist to funnel resources into one account for 150+ days to sim an unreasonable amount of troops that could never been achieved without a complete violation of all pushing rules so many times we lost count. They literally had to reprogram the pushing rules for the game and still they found ways to circumvent the rules by just making them personal farms or storing useless small artifacts in the villages that they were shipping resources to to skirt around the push limits. Their personal farms were also their PD's so they would just use those troops to defend against other players raids and then when they raided they mysteriously got moved elsewhere. Then they implemented the rules that you could only defend alliance mates so now they just extend and rescind confeds to proxy alliances to move defense when necessary. Or they just switch alliances to move defense and then pop back over when all is said and done. I sat council on two finals servers where we watched the Russian and Arab teams cheat like they were being paid to do it. It's so disgustingly prevalent you'd need to be paid to ignore it which is exactly what TG is doing. Salty people gonna say salty things. This conversation isn't about the salty losers. It's about what is really happening. Ad hominems and contradicting statements are two of the lowest forums of debate. We are talking about what is actually happening here. You wanna pretend it's not go somewhere else with that nonsense. I've got years of proof. Half the hall of fame accounts achieved what they did by cheating. Run the math. Half those hammers couldn't have been built without the entire resource production of three plus accounts. The troops couldn't have ever been fed without personalized garages for them. The system is actually set up to encourage this cheating. You just don't know because no one told you or you weren't privy to the information because of the complete cone of silence TG has put around even talking about this. I'm honestly astounded my posts haven't been deleted.

    I don't think you understand what the rule even was..... because what you just posted shows me you don't understand the direct interpretation of the rule and how it used to be enforced when it was albeit seldomly.

    The general consensus for the enforcement of the rule was that no more than 1 hour production of an account cannot leave and account an go to another within a 24 hour period. The only exceptions being artifact villages such as garages and the WW. Team wide pushes of 1 hour worth of resources literally are the perfect balance of team work and fairness. That will rebuild a cap in it's entirety back to at least 18's with all the GG and GW within a day or two from a good team. Less in some instances when there are 120+ players. The rule literally made it fair. Shipping out more than 1 hours worth of resources in a day just isn't in your own best interest as an account.

    The rule needs to be enforced such that if you are storing troops in a garage you should only be able to ship enough to feed it. If you are rebuilding someone's cap then 1 hours production from everyone is pretty darn fair. Pretty common to move a GG/GW into that cap and dump resources into it for a rebuild. Defense accounts feeding standing reins. Allow them to ship just enough to feed them. This stuff is basic coding and programing and incredibly easy to fix. The problem here is that team play is one thing. The fact that there are pods of this doing it to one account are the issue. That is the whole problem here.

    It requires real enforcement with actual people making real judgement calls about what is happening. It can't be completely automated. If a whole team wants to funnel an hours worth of resources to 4 accounts the entire server to build 4 nasty EGH's then that is fine and dandy. That is team work. They are the better team hands down. 4 accounts doing it solely for the benefit of the one is the issue. That was a violation of the rules and should still be.

    Post was edited 2 times, last by DabCrab ().

  • I wanted to point out that even tho DabCrab and Alestorm disagrees with each other, i enjoy the tone you guys are having in this discussion, hopefully i wont interrupt that by giving my input.

    In regards to techs/personal deffers/friendly accounts/ multis - Whatever a person wants to call them.
    I have almost only played on the nordics domane and i have tried playing with techs this last server on nordics 5.
    Clearly, it really makes a difference and I can understand why its so damn frustrating to play agianst, and so likely to play with.

    When i met some swedish players two years ago and they brought a light amount of techs even that seemed very unfair at the time, a few years later im also using techs/ former active players who just sim and chill. Now im playing a group where a good amount of the group uses techs, and instead we are playing against almost the entire server, which really made it fun to play. Then the tone sometimes gets a bit too rough, both from their and our side, which often is a bit over the top(i´m not innocent)
      
    Im not blind and "say every tech is a player", clearly not, surely the ban of Tor/ other browers like that should be done, 100 % agree with you both on that, no doubt. Ban those using multis and make the punishment harder for those getting caught in the act, im would put my vote behind that.
    Removing browers such as Tor, from what i can understand its because some regions cant play Travian and thats why it allowed? (not sure)


    I dont think think the 1 hour push 1.pr day is a good solution at all, really sounds like a bad idea tbh, if im closer and have the production to send a lot of boost, let me help my ally to stay in the server and feel the love of comradeship? And I sent a player lets say 20 or more % of my daily income and that becomes the difference between him keep on playing or deleting, then thats also into my best interest.

    And why should garage be allowed for a alliance, for a EGH/storing deff instead but not for a common player I cant really see point in that, if you would care to enlighten a bit more on your idea behind that? I cant see a alliance should have better conditions than a few bunch of players. Thats the idea behind the techs, a bunch of old players just wanting to socialize and chill, while they outside life might have moved on so they´re only able to put a few hours a week/instead of lots of hours pr. day. I can´t see why it should be ilegale for that to happen, the game is not about being fair, its about winning/ others just catapult for fun. It takes years to learn how to play travian, and you´re almost always learning, without a proper introduction to the game you dont stand a chance. I sure havent learnt everything about this game, and i see plently of players with 10+ years going offensive gual/throwing away/ taking terrible 2nd villages or settling soooo late/ playing ineffective, denying that the gamed have changed.

    "Every account has to be played to its own benefit and may not be used only to support another account." - Cant remember the saying for this in my native tounge, seemed a bit different, but lets go with it.

    Who decides whats best for my account besides myself and who knows what my plans are for the server besides me/duals?
    If giving away a village is a crime, then chiefing villages for other players would be bad then. If someone quits playing in my group theyre nicely asked to pass on their villages as a good gesture to those remaining. Where i chose to settle in the early game might not always benefit me only, sometimes you would get told where to settle by ally to make the alliance stronger. Buying certain items/ outbidding alliance members might help me right and now, but in the long run a ally memeber should have gotten that item.

    I can always individuel pick-up the closet art, but if my alliance have other priorites than those should come before my own benefit, again not the best for my account but its good for group. I gotta fit into my group and follow the orders the leaders give/ or when being a leader a person hopefully dont think their own good. So many things will directly hurt your account but would also be a result of teamplay.

    Sometimes your own account has to sacrifice to the greater good of the group, so its not all black and white , and one day im surely playing as tech for someone because i wont have time to play full time/ setting alarms at night/making ops 8|
    Enjoy your weekend out there :item12:

  • For anyone wondering how - the "less ethically" would by pass the oasis system, is having a tech/multi clear the first few animals, and make sure i pick up the bounty on the weakend oasis. Along with the leveling system reseting our hero's health, making him early on much stronger and granting additional xp from tasks, this can be very very lucrative if the bounty on animals is significant. Anyone knows what the bounty will be?


    This change seems doomed to me. Also it hugely favors romans.


    And not to forget it encourages early registers, because they have fewer players challanging their cleaned oasis.


    Also the task system speeds up the start so it will be less significant whatever you do in the game.

    Gebruik jolijt wanneer gij zijt in uwe jonge jaren

    Post was edited 2 times, last by GGvdH_NL ().

  • It is my understanding that there will be no resources in the oases until after the animals have been cleared. And it will only build at the normal rate. And I did see a list in one of these threads giving the bonus amount for every type of animal. If my memory serves, it was something like 30 to 500 resources per animal. And only two or three animals over 100 res.

  • 50 of all resource/crop point/animal is very high and very rewarding (it's free resources and experience in reality because of the full health when leveling up, and the experience from tasks).


    The experience part of the tasks should be removed (and the resources lowered a lot).


    Farming all those cleaned (and in no time they all will be cleared) oasis is tire some and anti-fun. It was fun when it was behind a somewhat barrier of animials. But still wasn't. Oasis will be an even bigger influence to the beginning of the game, and thuse is your starting location.


    Some people already have 10 or even 15 email's to make sure their location is perfect along with their alts. The importance of alts will be reduced during beginners protection, but the importance of location is futher enhanced, which is a bad direction for the game because it's something you can not influence (along with the importance of alts being strongly increased post beginners protection, because of the hero, which make it easy to create a fresh account and attack continiously with the hero to kill other players, along with the free gold [will lead to the inflation of silver], to buy buckets quickly before your account will be banned).

    Gebruik jolijt wanneer gij zijt in uwe jonge jaren

    Post was edited 6 times, last by GGvdH_NL ().

  • To those who participated in one of the first 4.6 servers, any thoughts, and remarks to share on the forum? :)

    Thank you

  • To those who participated in one of the first 4.6 servers, any thoughts, and remarks to share on the forum?

    I'm putting together a rough guide for folks to follow in regards to how to settle V2 in an adequate amount of time. The new settling and reward system changes how you will settle very much so based on the proximity and number of oasis you spawn near.


    I'll give hats off to TG for actually nerfing Techs being useful before settling. I know that must've taken a lot of work to restore at least some semblance of integrity to the game. People will still mass spawn techs until they get an account in a location with a desirable number of oasis nearby and then take over that account as their main but it's still better than nothing.

    My only complaint would be what everyone else is saying which is make the hero start with the tier one horse in the inventory as well as 1 book. it's a fair game then(at least at the start of the server till V2)

  • I'm putting together a rough guide for folks to follow in regards to how to settle V2 in an adequate amount of time. The new settling and reward system changes how you will settle very much so based on the proximity and number of oasis you spawn near.


    I'll give hats off to TG for actually nerfing Techs being useful before settling. I know that must've taken a lot of work to restore at least some semblance of integrity to the game. People will still mass spawn techs until they get an account in a location with a desirable number of oasis nearby and then take over that account as their main but it's still better than nothing.

    My only complaint would be what everyone else is saying which is make the hero start with the tier one horse in the inventory as well as 1 book. it's a fair game then(at least at the start of the server till V2)

    Okay, thank you for the feedback :)
    I'll pass on your suggestion regarding the horse and the book.

  • So... A lot of us are on the first international server and the abuse of teching is absolutely outrageous and I'm wondering is there an official stance on what the enforcement is going to be on this?

    It seems like despite giving the MH teams the ability to finally have rules that allow them some leeway in dishing out punishment to those skirting the rules that nothing is really being done.