Standing defence etiquette

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  • I was wondering if there were any unwritten rules in travian about standing defence?


    Some of our players have sent standing defence back to their 'home' defence players during the Christmas and New Year cease fires, and expected it to be sent back once the ceasefire finishes.


    I may be wrong, but this really annoyed me as the players involved justified it by saying they were feeding someone else's defence and it was slowing down their growth.


    Before I let loose in our Skype chat I was wondering if there is previous on this type/style of behaviour?


    Am I over-reacting... Please tell!!


    Lag


    I’m not good-looking. I used to be but not anymore. Not like Robert Taylor. What I have got is I have character in my face. It’s taken an awful lot of late nights and drinking to put it there. When I go to work in a picture, I say, ‘Don’t take the lines out of my face. Leave them there'
    - Humphrey Bogart


    Anglosphere 6 - Salacious B Crumb

  • When sending home standing defence I strongly believe that regardless of it being ceasefire the player that has received the defence should first in game message and ask for the defence to be recalled. Firstly, if its a significant amount of defence you may be putting the defenders village in negative and if they aren't online and prepared they may receive losses through starvation. Secondly, messaging alerts them to what is happening in the village and lets them know that their help is valued. You are not 'using' them for their defence but instead working with them. If after 12-24 hours the message is unread I'd then contact a sitter and in worst case scenario send home and feed using merchants (although this defeats the object if the defence is to be returned).


    My opinion of returning standing defence during ceasefire varies depending on the length of the ceasefire and whether or not its a capital village. If the ceasefire is 3 days (e.g xmas) then the resources produced over the 72 hours is a significant amount and returning troops is acceptable. If its only 24 hours (e.g. new year) then the travelling time of the troops returning home to be sent back out only means your punishing your team mates by having them lose production during the ceasefire.


    Where this gets tricky is if the standing defence is in your capital. In this case it really depends on the production your going to be missing. A 3k hourly wheat production that you don't gain is vastly different from a 30k hourly production you don't gain. Whatever is decided, my first paragraph should still apply.

  • I personally would have let loose over skype. (I didn't say I was the maestra of diplomacy.)


    Let's Keep It Simple, Stupid:
    Def call - owner feeds
    Standing def - host feeds.


    Standing def is permanent and doesn't go home.


    As far as I'm concerned that is how it goes.


    Why? Because the deffer will probably go into negative if you return it AND if you are an off player who thinks they can merrily hog vast amounts of def, making it unavailable for the rest of the alliance, then it can be YOUR responsibility. So it stunts your growth? Tough bananas, you're the one who wanted it there. You don't get to pick and choose when it suits you to have it.


    Now as for ceasefire I will admit it's an exception. If you don't wish to host it or wish to take advantage of the wheat, then you should politely speak to the owner of the troops and ASK if they could redirect it to an inactive village during the ceasefire. If the owner says no, you either return it and upset your deffer (incredibly unwise imo) or you deal with it. And remember, when returning them, you are costing the deffer wheat during the travel time. Both ways. Just because you didn't want to feed them yourself. Not very nice.


    Oops, edited to add: I returned standing defs several times last server while dealing with the diet artefact. I will say... perhaps that's another exception, because me hosting that def was benefiting both parties AND the defs were only returned when I had no choice but to move the artefact.

    Post was edited 2 times, last by Elisa ().

  • I agree with the above. I've been holding standing defence in my village and wouldn't dare send it back without at least agreeing with the defenders first


    as for the ceasefire, my cap was running at a lot lower wph than it could have but a lot of defence comes from capitals now, so sending it home meant some defers would of lost out on the extra wheat themselves. These guys are protecting my village so why should they lose out just to suit my needs - growth will happen over time.
    Sounds like you have some very selfish people in your alliance

  • Thanks everyone,


    You all pretty much said what I thought was correct - and yes Ryder, we have some real 'interesting characters' this round...


    Lag

    I’m not good-looking. I used to be but not anymore. Not like Robert Taylor. What I have got is I have character in my face. It’s taken an awful lot of late nights and drinking to put it there. When I go to work in a picture, I say, ‘Don’t take the lines out of my face. Leave them there'
    - Humphrey Bogart


    Anglosphere 6 - Salacious B Crumb

  • I think you are not over-reacting at all and you should not only let loose in the skypechat but also kick them. :P


    These guys are protecting my village so why should they lose out just to suit my needs


    What do you mean why?? Because you are the hotshot super mega off with 20k or less troops on the top of the pop chart. That automatically means everyone else is just a slave to take care of your needs. That's pretty much the logic behind it lol :D


    #teamplayisforlosers

  • I think you are not over-reacting at all and you should not only let loose in the skypechat but also kick them. :)


    Wouldn't you like that :ahoy::P

    Yes, I've built my fair share of WWs. Won a few, lost a few. Played far too many rounds for far too long. Made a lot friends and enemies.


    Yes, I've played as an anvil and as a hammer. I'm only playing now because of all the friendship I have built over the past ten years. I love Travian but I love the community even more.


    Envy me for I have everything, Fear me for I have nothing to lose.


    The one and only, Teutobod.


  • There are too many variables. Let's take a look at some.
    1.Cease fire? No attacks, yes? Meaning standing is not needed, it can be sent home and after that to a farm. A message before sending home would be ideal, but as said, def is not needed so why should the player hold the def and lose on the free wheat? And sending it back will not kill any troops from starvation? Think no one mentioned this?
    2.Def can't be sent on time after the cease fire? I do not see a reason for this to be a peoblem, it wasn't required for it to land at 12 sharp and could have been sent home from farm at 11:59 and sent to the location right after that.
    3.Standing is standing, you want it, you feed it. No one says it's not like thatz no one is complaining either. For the time it's needed. You don't need it for 3 days and a farm can feed it? Is it too obvious what you should do? Yes, keep it and feed it so you don't get too much res from the benefit of a cease fire.
    4. Spending a lot of res for feeding troops slows down your progress? No, no, it can't be.
    5. Yes, standing was sent for you and you have to feed it, thus freeing up wheat for the defender to make more def or use it in whatever way it suits him. That makes his job easier and he can produce more def so when you don't need the standing anymore he has a bigger anvil? Oh my, but he can't return you that favour by feeding his def for the few hrs it's on the way from your cap to his anvil village and then to a farm? Shouldn't take much of his res... He does you a favour of sending it, you so him a favour of feeding it for most of the time


    Before pointing out the finger on the forum you might as well have told the full story and not the way you saw it? Some players might have been messaged that their def would be returned for the cease fires? No, that never got mentioned, but who cares anyway.


    - - - Updated - - -



    Account was not mine to start with, I joined in on November 22th and it was in not the best of shape - 12s in cap, a few troops in the acc and a cropper near the gray in the enemy quad. Only good thing was the right policy towards CPs and new villages, deny it or not settling villages early on makes a difference. Top of the charts with 12 villages (3 artworks used for this and not a single more) while other players have less than that? Not too bad. And about the troops, no need to say it's being worked on.


    I don't respect slavery, I asked for standing and leaders made sure I got some, thanking them, I did wrong by not messaging players that I'd be returning the def on the 31st too and I said I was sorry. I told a few players I'd do it on the 23rd and did it on the 24th. Told leaders too, guess I surprised them when I did it on the 31st again, it was so unexpected. That's the logic behind that. And about team play, I may be rude, harsh, but a team player. Have worked with lots of players on the current server before, they know that, even if they won't say it here.

  • Personally I aim to agree the terms with the player in question - whether I'm playing offensive or defensive. If a player wants troops for a defence request, I will aim to feed unless requested not to. If the player has requested standing then it's assumed they will feed it and it's generally polite to inform me if they're returning it.


    One alternative that I haven't seen discussed is if I ask to place my defence as standing. You might ask a small/unique diet holder to hold 10k troops and you offer to pay 5k per hour, meaning you've got an extra 5k per hour production to train more troops with. Some might argue you can get away with paying a bit under since you're benefiting the artefact holder as well, but you are only paying half the food bill anyway. Plus the player may have originally planned to move the artefact and not defend.


    As an offensive player I would plan my account around feeding standing. If it's crippling my growth, I can raid more to make up for it or plan to return the standing.

    "It’s only when the tide goes out that you see who was swimming naked."


    #MakeTravianGreatAgain #MTGA


  • Before pointing out the finger on the forum you might as well have told the full story and not the way you saw it? Some players might have been messaged that their def would be returned for the cease fires? No, that never got mentioned, but who cares anyway.


    Thanks for answering my queries, but I think you misunderstood my reason for posting. If I was pointing the finger, I would have posted in the server 2 forum not here... I was looking for advice from better players than me before I went back to the Skype chat and called people (I am guessing you :horse:) selfish so-and-so's!!


    Lag

    I’m not good-looking. I used to be but not anymore. Not like Robert Taylor. What I have got is I have character in my face. It’s taken an awful lot of late nights and drinking to put it there. When I go to work in a picture, I say, ‘Don’t take the lines out of my face. Leave them there'
    - Humphrey Bogart


    Anglosphere 6 - Salacious B Crumb

  • Thanks for answering my queries, but I think you misunderstood my reason for posting. If I was pointing the finger, I would have posted in the server 2 forum not here... I was looking for advice from better players than me before I went back to the Skype chat and called people (I am guessing you :horse:) selfish so-and-so's!!


    Lag


    If things happen as you tell them than it sounds totally selfish and you are not overreacting. If the full story is told, some may accept that they would have done the same thing and this post was not needed, meaning you have overreacted quite a lot more than what the situation asked for, the player was at fault and he admitted it.