Posts by IMDubzs

    e. Yes/No. Reduce rewards. Don't disable parties. Parties are essential to early game strats.

    I suggested the party thing to ensure settling time is about 4 days+. Maybe another solution would be start at 0 CP not at 1k.


    Generally I don't like pop quests since pop is not important. In fact you want as low pop as possible for as much CP/Production as possible.


    The quests I suggested were just examples and based on the idea new players need to be introduced to those concepts. TLDR meant was, "please improve this!"

    (sorry for double post)


    Dear all,


    so after testing the server start it seems there is not much more to explore on the new task system so here is basically my feedback. I believe it is important to make suggestions because it is hard to improve on the feedback "this is shit".


    Please keep in mind this is my opinion, I try to stay as neutral as possible but I am just a human.


    First of all I want to lay the groundwork of what scope we are talking about. This will have influence on the following things:

    - trade

    - early farming

    - auction house (gold use in general)

    - new player friendliness


    This is due to the fact that the new system gives you basically two things:

    1. Massive amount of ressources to the point that you would hurt your developement if you build troops, since the time you need to make the investment back is too high.

    2. Lots of Hero experience.


    As a reference point, you can have a full 7 field village with over 300 CP production and a small party running basically within the first hour of the server. Additionally the Hero level at this point would actually be lv 19 which means 3600 ress/h (with +25% running) alone from the hero if you go full on ressource production. Furthermore you will cap out your Hero ress production within only a few days (need lvl 24 for it). My calculations say that you still need the +50CP reward from the daily quest to settle which means people will send settlers shortly after 24h of server time.


    At this point a lot of people jump to the conclusion everything sucks but I believe we need to digest what parts of the system are problematic and how can we fix this.


    1. Establishing goals

    First of all we need to think about what the aims of the task systems were and what the feedback of the community was. Since TG to my knowledge doesn't do developement manifestos I can only take into account what i read on the forums and the LoT documents. A new task system was multiple times requested since the old one was very basic and had only impact within the first week of the game. I believe the community request here had the goal in mind that the task system should guide newer players to the point that they have a easier time to figure out how to build a working account and most people didn't wanted a radical new one but the old one extended. Additionally I want to include the discussion about Gold, here people are complaining about pay to win and about high entry barriers for newer players who want to try out the game but don't want to invest money in a game they don't know yet (and additionally is getting advertised as free to play).


    2. What does the new system do well?

    Because of the above stated reason this system has a massive influence on the early game part of the game. It may feel weird but the higher hero level actually helps to adress the influence of accounts dumping 500-1000€ on the first server week to buy gladiator helmet, ointments, cages and books to level their hero and assist with early farming. Those playstyles will now have a lesser influence and would be possible without the high gold usage since the hero is so much stronger.


    3. What does the system doesn't do well?

    While reducing the influence of high gold at the same time the disadvantage of low gold players grows a lot higher. This is due to the fact that you profit massively from the ressource rewards which means you "chase" completing the rewards asap and how you do that? Yes, golding buildings. People who invest about 500g for the early game are competitive while settling, people who don't gold will probably settle when the first players have 3 or more villages. Additionally the tasks in every additional village create a situation that you are even more rewarded for golding everything and settling more and more villages. This combined with the hero giving more rewards the higher level he is very easily can snowball out of hand.

    The tasks itself sadly lost its meaning and not gained much depth. Now you have a "building plan" for your first village without much explanation and with the removing of tasks for building troops, introducing menues and maps etc. it even is a a downgrade for newer players. I can not see how people will learn anything from this system other than build alongside the tasks for rewards. The quests itself are sometimes very questionable and seem just copy pasted to the different buildings (why having a reward for residence lvl 12???).

    The high amount of ressources in your hero inventory are very nice for players cheating and abusing the system. After beginners protection you will see people having massive farm spikes or even have people trading the ressources and pushing hard.

    To conclude this game makes everything it touches worse for newer players and was clearly not developed with this goal in mind. Player like me who gold a lot but don't go "too far with it" will benefit greatly. I believe it will divide the playerbase even more and don't really know what else to say tbh....


    4. How can we fix/improve the system?

    a. Remove the tasks in every village and instead improve the general tasks.

    b. Introduce new tasks for integrate parts of the game (Building troops, Making trade routes, Having X Amount of villages etc.) in the general tasks. Here long term tasks are needed too (for example having 10k troops in one village or make a full maxed out great party).

    c. Tune down Hero Experience and hero level scaling but don't remove it (probably around 50% - 60% from my feeling, Hero should maybe reach lvl 10 and not much more).

    d. Look over every task and improve them logiacally (residence, bakery etc.).

    e. Tune down Ressource rewards and maybe disable parties within the first 4 days of the Server (trust me this hurts me the most I am a early party guy :( )

    f. Implement Quests that give about 100-150g reward and +25% production and Plus within beginners protection. This is for players that normaly would not buy any gold and to lessen the gap at the start. Also great opportunity to introduce gold to the game. :P


    Lastly I want to address the term "deterministic" this means there is one best building order everybody should follow no matter what. In an ideal world this should not exist. The new system sadly is very deterministic, for the future I would maybe fokus a bit on fixing that.



    So, what do you think on my take, did I missed something?


    Best,


    IMDubzs



    ( xTyrell   Scyllo tagged for visibility)

    Then maybe i misunderstood you since you posted a way lower amount of quests for your second Village.


    If there are no crazy rewards for the global tasks, TLDR for this system is:


    You need to Gold to bei relevant so Low/no gold user are screwed.

    Crazy high gold usage (basically buying everything from the AH) ist nerfed since you don't need it anymore.


    I don't Like it since the Task system should be good for new players and not be exploitable by people Like Wychor or me. On a regular Server I would send settlers after 24h guaranteed. And the worst Part is it IS deterministic. So 0 Skill you just need the right order.


    I need a day or two to think how this is fixable.

    Different from mine or different from your 1st?

    I am about to change capitals so we'll see if that will make a difference. Edit: no difference

    Also, can someone from the travian staff please confirm that they read this page?

    different from yours or you didn't posted all

    The new task system rewards you too much from buying gold. In the old system, by buying gold you could finish your constructions immediately, and that gave you some advantage. However, the resources would run out in a few hours. This new task system gives you almost unlimited resources on the first day, so the ones who can not (or does not want to) pay for immediate completion will fall behind way more that what they used to.

    Thats not true. Massive amounts of gold were more impactful before. Now you don't need cages, gladiator helmet etc. which rewarded crazy high gold usage. But you still have a point since with this system low or no gold players are absolutely fucked and will fall far behind. I will see tomorrow what quests are there in a second village and only then make my conclusion.

    As it stands now, to settle you would need about 500g to gold everything.

    7. Your aim should be to become a low gold user by applying the above tips. (and keep + ressources running as much as possible + buy gold club) A lot of stuff is worth much in the beginning.

    8. You should probably start on day 2 or 3 on the server so you have the space to develope near starter

    9. I Would suggest a 7c HD with very good oases, since you will even struggle to develope a 9c without gold

    10. Your troops are limited by your total crop income if you don't raid, therefore I suggest only one troop village (maybe 2 if you get the hang of it). Use trading routes to supply the troop village.

    11. Go in the best available alliance in your sector.

    Tech = unpunishable multi accounts.

    Then we don't talk about the same stuff.


    I talk as I stated not about multies. For multies it doesnt matter if they store or build def or whatever the fk, they need to be banned.


    But if I myself would decide to support our WWK, I can't see any reason why I shouldn't be able to do that? Why do you want to restrict my gameplay? Im not a bot, I don't play two accounts (would probably be a sitter tho). A lot of players do this or did this in the past. They just didn't call themself "techs". They just called themself defensive Players. But after a certain point in the game they also just stored troops for the WWK. Because people figuered out it is beneficial to support even earlier to get the queues rolling and make it in general easier for the WWK account you oppose this?


    As far as I am concerned you need to ban multiaccounting ( I know this is problematic with tor/proxys used) and everything else is just smart usage of gamemechanics.


    But then again, since travian is a very linear game it will always be full of cheaters in its current state.

    Because a tech player means you have more then one account. And the number of accounts is directly related to strenght, even beyond linair, 2 accounts are more then twice as strong as 1 account.

    I mean you can't compare it to one Account. You Need to keep in mind that you loose one Account who would otherwise build troops. So you basically need to compare it to two Accounts.

    Again I don't speak about multi accounting.

    Techs nullify personal dedication, game knowledge and skill. Any personal effort is invalidated by tech users achieving the same (or even more) with minimal effort and no risk. That is what a lot of players take issue with.

    How so? I myself never played with a tech or was one myself, but for example in my current world we have one player in my alliance who holds unique diet and settles a village in every def/off cluster from us to feed mainly our defensive units (but off as well). Why shouldn't this be allowed for players who don't hold an artefact but want to support their offensive players? Why is there minimal effort? A tech account needs to develop their villages too. Why is there no risk? Because this may lead to a an easier manageble WWK but less over all defense since those tech account could just build tons of defensive units instead of feeding the hammer, equals higher risk of getting nuked.


    Maybe I should again clarify, when I talk about a tech player I talk about an active alliance member who just choose to support the WWK players a lot, not a tor based dummy account. I can understand if the playerbase is angry when they see some accounts with like 20 bots around them which they can exclusively raid and chief full developed villages, because thats cheating. Garaging parts of Hammers is not.


    I probably wasn't clear enough in my posts above and if thats so I wan't to apologize. But I believe that not the tech playstyle is the problem, instead TGs tools to determine if those players are real and legit.


    If I would decided right now that, because of time issues, I just want to support our WWK. Why would you deny my playstyle? Because I don't play for the benifit of my account you probably say. But what is the benefit of my account? Trying to win with the World Wonder race with my alliance!

    Garaging WWKs is the most prevalent issue. OP hammers are to a greater degree fed on own account - and again, I think it's fair to offer some garaging just because you have some spare crop. But we're talking accounts that are set up with the primary purpose of being garages, garaging 100k+ troops (an actual, in game example, being a 1m EC WWK, with 230k imps stored in one garage, and 24k catas in another.)

    This playstyle is not an issue at all. In fact it is what you should do, while using your artefacts. The Problem is that there are sometimes no unique players behind those Accounts which means it is just multiaccounting. Why should you be forced to farm 24/7 to feed an WWK, because other players had to do it back in 1872?


    My suggestion was specifically allowing this support playstyle to a certain degree and more or less make everything exceeding this very hard. If people having fun playing more supportive, why not make this possible? Of course this comes with drawbacks because every change in this range affects all players. Same with restrictions to farming.


    This equals many many players quitting the game. I'm sure we can all agree fewer players is the last thing we need.


    The Players are already gone, I am one of the very very few example who just recently joined this game (in 2017) and stayed. You just need to look at the regional servers even from the bigger domains. It is the exception if there are more then 600 active player after artefacts.


    Maybe I am wrong here, but I think TG has no real vision for the game anymore and they first need to think about what playstyles they want in this game and what they don't want. After that they need to design it properly in that way. Currently it seems they fight fire with fire and the moment they fix an issue they create another. What other games told me is that if something is exploitable people will figure it out and milk the hell out of it, Travian is just a very slow game.


    So before they change anything they need to ask themself, maybe in cooperation with you guys, the following questions (and more):


    1. What playstyles do we want to allow? (Off, Deff, Hybrid, WWK/WWR, Support, Ghost Hammers and so on, plus any variations)

    2. Should farming be mandatory for some of them?

    3. What is an account allowed to do to support his alliance and in that regard other accounts?

    4. Should there be drawbacks if you ignore the server objective?

    5. How many Gold do you need to play a decent account (yes this is important to design the game around and TG should at least internally know this to target the right bracket of customers)?


    And some more, which to a degree are talked about already (Server time for example) or I didn't came up with just now.


    I mean I don't play that long and still start getting tired because in this game specifically, people want to force their own playstyle on everyone else. In my opinion players can do whatever they want as long as they are real unique players and don't use cheats. If I choose to build zero troops and garage my whole alliance why not? Why does it matter that "back in the day" people didn't do that?