Posts by Obi-Wan

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    Wow. This has been the biggest stretch of the interpretation I have seen. We went through this many times already.

    Helping others is not equal to being tech, like you said, you need to help your alliance. In my book, teching is when you build an account to settle in 300/300 and sim fields to 21 just so that you have no other strategy but to let another pre-determined account raids you dry (or store troops). And no, casual 200 phalanx training does not cut it. Basically if one account acts like an extension of another account from the very beginning, it is problematic. Well, I guess not for future reference after the change of rules.

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    We Turks Speak English Very Well, okey ?


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    what I don't like is reading a non context accusation like you did by insinuating.

    Well, I cannot help you if you don't want to hear someone pointing out problems in the game and how some of your players are practicing it (similar to some in SGR too). There was a single thread to discuss all the issues in com1 for throughout the server so I do not understand how one can post something that is not out of the context. And not all my posts are about accusing Vices, there is a fair amount of acknowledgement for the successes too.

    Just don't forget that your interpretation of that rule is your interpretation, not necessarly the spirit of the rule.

    The rule is crystal clear to me. Tech by definition is not playing for its benefit. We have just seen Verdie's post confessing to not playing for its own benefit. But yes, feel free to spin it around. Either way, why is discussing this issue or disagreeing means being toxic?

    I dont get offended, but you (you personally) started creating a toxic environment this round.

    I did not only put some insinuation, I also blatantly pointed fingers at some people who break rules. So would you personally prefer that we just ignore all these problems that make people hate the game? I am not going to pretend that these are not problems at all because these really are and people cry about it non-stop on Skype and Discord. Instead of accusing me for bringing these issues up on the forum which started the debate and I guess the toxic environment, try to acknowledge them and do something about these instead of "you do too" or "you create toxic environment" so that these do not come up in the first place?

    It is true that burying your head under the sand will help you create less toxic environment, but it does not necessarily mean that it is the right thing to do.

    He talked about a guy selling arties (I don't know if the guy actually did such a thing, it is Obi assertion)

    Cris, not all accusations are throwing mud. Yes I did accuse Vices for many things. Account buying (well at least trial) DID happen and I offered to show proofs. PlannedDownTime’s ban happened right after he was reported and nobody pushed back on that accusation on the forum. I explained a million times about Tinky’s account yet you guys keep bringing it up, it was an MM to point out and tease general usage of techs from V. I don’t care to know what accounts are actually techs, and which ones are reals since you also admitted that you have too many. Similarly Jin’s 30 friends appearing in arties time is something I will keep criticizing and accusing you for ruining the game.

    In general, someone pointing out your wrongdoings and, putting it mildly, stretching the game rules to your liking is not equal to baseless accusations or being toxic. Just because you were upset, it does not mean that you are right. Your only argument against all these points were “But SGR is doing too, you hypocrite!”. And yes, some is happening (although not to this extent) in SGR too and yes, I am actually bothered unlike you, that it happens and doing my best to prevent it from happening in SGR.

    It is not toxic to mention the cheaters in your team or game abusing tactics like techs. It is rather toxic to attack someone’s real life personality by mocking someone’s nationality, mental state or sexuality. Except Luke (for which I have a high respect for him) and Loffe (and thanks for doing that) nobody even acknowledged how ridiculous these were.

    Anyway, I don’t intent to further discussing the old stuff that we already talked about months ago.

    All in all, there's no better time for the rest of the players to quit either. WW servers are messed up - Villains and finals players been showing it in past, and Anomander just took that one step further.

    That's why I was grinning everytime I saw a post complaining about Anomander as it was a proof for me that people were actually realizing why the current mechanics can be abused and why it is a problem. I have been trying to explain it for a good year in com servers now but all in vain - people needed to see it from first hand experience why there is a need to be a change. To me the real impact of Anomander does not matter at all, all the crying and this post will hopeful help put things into a perspective or else, be ready to see much more Anomanders in the following servers. It is not a rocket science either, a small group can easily pull a few Anomanders and make the rest of the server hate life.

    Feeding is easy and often it just happens.

    Completely agreed. People generally underestimate how much they can feed. Apart from the arties too, most accounts are underutilized in building defense with the fear of starvation. Things just work out.

    it wasnt "fairly" obvious, it was very obvious.

    As Cris said,

    But it wasnt obvious to Chris as she thought it was for morale bonus?

    Both teams VICES & SGR/TEN plays this boring kind of travian even if SGR to some extent try to make OPs even if it's hitting feeders day 220.

    :thumbsup: I agree. Sure it takes some planning and dedicated players, but I never considered growing massive WWks in boonies or hitting raid button every 5 minutes a skill in travian. The only impressive thing I have seen in Vices were their consistent defense coordination. About Ops in SGR, the quality of OP players matter here... SGR never had reliable launchers. I am not defending feeder hits at day 220 (I have never planned a feeder hit apart from mass WW feeder/NPC village hits) but it was inevitable at times. I think mads and I managed to do best with what we had last round (10 ops in 12 weeks) and this round Grim and Robert put a lot of effort but was definitely not enough. I think TEN has the offensive potential and used a really tiny but this round their effectiveness was exacerbated by TEN's lack of defense organization.

    No what caused most of TEN and lowlands to delete was the endless nonsense from all sides about cheating, when everyone cheats. The environment was so toxic that it just wasnt fun for far too many of my allies. So instead of a solid fight what you ended up with is a skeleton crew trying to run a really big ship. However, I give credit to vices for be such formidable opponents. Truly well done, and well earned, yall came to win, and you did. I just wanted TEN to go out with something like dignity.

    This is the problem though Snake, all I have seen from LL and many TEN guys were the constant complaining about Anomander account (while in fact, it was no different than any other numerous Vices accounts that got boosted), yet you are saying that endless non-sense about cheating was the reason people stopped playing. It seems like a self-fulfilling thing at the end of the day. It seemed like some of your members in your group were extremely bothered by the cheating and some others were annoyed that others were bothered. Tonzo's ragequit and TG's bugs didn't help either. I salute you, Electric Avenue and my man Grim for sticking till the end and trying your best.

    Let me take this opportunity to tell a few more things.

    I would say, things were chill in SGR except the first few weeks. After the toxic people were eliminated from the alliance, it was never really depressive or upsetting, as usual with full of seal spams. People were just happy to play together. The team was much weaker compared to the last round and the alliance with TEN couldn't really be established whatsoever which at the end of the day costed the server. Props to Mazzi, Saku and Robert for trying their best. It was an uphill battle from the very beginning.

    And congrats to Vices for winning the server. They were stronger than the last time, at least in terms of organization. I do not want to take away anything from the win. For the future reference, alliances have to perform MUCH during the arties time. No matter with the shady stuff with accounts created under BP, alliances should be prepared against it in the next servers. It is not acceptable to see one quad grabbing 5/6 small trainers and 4/6 small diets from the get go. Although I was away for the most of the server, my personal favorite accounts were Raskolnikov and Trojan Horse. LukeHaines_COM did a great job to lead the alliance, run the WW, maintained great defense numbers and a good OP hammer. Trojan was a great defender against our OPs, centrally located to reach out to multiple locations with druids. It was similar to Tasty Tea last round who caused a lot of troubles. His ghosts were also impactful.

    I know that the debates got heated and I know that I contributed to littering this forum at times. Personally, I want to ask your pardon if I created too much of a hassle in the forum wars or offended anyone. It is the best I could do with the limited time I had to play this game in this round, except one or two months I tried to help with ops, responded to some defense calls and collected reports. I tried to keep my criticisms within the borders of the game but if it was out of the line at times, I apologize. Except for a few inappropriate things said related to personal life, I do not hold any grudges and consider most as friends.

    Thanks and see you in the next servers,

    That was a long post about my WW.


    And btw a lot if numbers in your post are simply wrong. A roman hammers needs less than 75 million/week to queue all buildings using trainer. Also if you started GB/GS day 60 and then queued everything with trainer you would have beaten my hammer from last round since you said you lost 15k from spiking. And you were not even close.

    I think this has something to do with the ban they got.

    The simple reason for us being able to feed that much is that I planned for this since before the server started. That’s why we could stack that much def early which was a big part in us winning this server easily since all your small WWKs became useless.

    They would still do damage at early levels or if planned properly. I do not know how SGR made the WWk hit plans but seemed haphazard to me. Last round, we spent an awful lot time constructing WWk trains calculating what is the optimal time to hit taking into account various simulations.

    Not the first time we see a one village WWk or a 3 village off account though, nothing new already seen since T3.6.

    Then why were you all crying non stop, claiming that he must be cheating very hard to have a one village WWk?

    Edit: Oh yeah, and congrats on the win.

    This is the kind of an attitude a failing company embraces. I can only hope that TG will do better than accusing their customers. It is not up to you or TG to judge how severe the bugs were or how they impacted the fun players get from the game. If someone acts as if world is ending, instead of blaming customers, the most logical thing TG can do is to accept this as a fact, analyze why players are feeling like this and make sure that this doesn't happen again without excuses. I don't know how you inferred that I am suggesting TG to share their codes from "transparent solutions". It is not my responsibility to find solutions for TG, but to say the least, they should give a more proper compensation and more satisfying explanations.

    Also, once again, "ANY human action there is no 100% certainty" is a complete bs - refer to my earlier post. You cannot reduce this into a rigid dichotomy, some events are more uncertain than others and incidence of such events are correlated with the actions of humans. It is only expected to have higher uncertainty and high incidence of bugs (like, three game breaking bugs in the spam of 2 months) if the developers are incapable.

    So let's look at some facts:

    • I'm not a programmer but from how I understand it not every bug just rears its head right away. It can take a certain event or chain of events to set it off and reaching that point won't necessarily be reached during testing. You can't test forever or nothing will ever be released.

    How is this a fact but not your own interpretation?

    Issues with any type of code happen everyday. In fact some of the biggest companies in the world have bugs that pose a much greater danger to the world than Travian going down for a couple days. So I really think everyone needs to put this all in perspective and take a breath. This is a game and this is a product of human invention - things will go wrong.

    BB, I do not intend to be mean but this is the type of argument I dislike the most - painting all with a broad brush by bringing up irrelevant examples. How does an hypothetical bug in an imaginary enterprise's code excuse TG's screw up? Even if what you say were true, why would I be satisfied an explanation like "it could happen somewhere else too"? It is a mistake to use bad examples to justify the problems, if anything, this kind of behavior harms the company even more. Professional companies listen to their customers, own their mistakes and offer transparent solutions. They do not sweeps things under the rug, they do not blame their customers for complaining. At the end of the day they exist thanks to the loyal customers. At bare minimum, TG should explain how they will ensure that these will not happen again and people who were disadvantaged by these bugs have all the right in the world to complain.


    You did other assumptions without information though. And don’t get me wrong - I don’t know what they are doing or I would not be talking about it given no official statement. This assumption is as good as yours though.

    Can you point out the assumption I made that you think is not fair? Having "no official statement" is a good enough base for me to criticize TG. The discussion started after I claimed that there has to be something wrong with the construction of the codes since the gameplay was broken. You also agreed that the codes are old and needs to be rewritten. So, I don't understand what you are trying to arguing for.

    What shitshow? Crash happened, we don’t know what exactly and why. I see nothing that can be named as shitshow after. Servers were brought down rather quick and restored in reasonable time frame given the magnitude. Announcements were made, not without a flow, but again reasonable given the magnitude. Majority of the servers recovered smoothly, I have not heard anything significant in our alliance except in-game events that ended up with different outcome. We lost a small hammer but even that was taken without whining and I am grateful that no one created drama. I am surprised with the speed customer service was resolving issues yesterday ( not sure about today, hope they skipped the weekend). So where exactly is shitshow?

    Are you serious with this? Just take an example of com1. Do you realize how many game breaking bugs have happened in last 1-2 months only on com1? Are you all oblivious to all these angry complaints, all those threads created, the kind of discussions happening on Skype, players quitting left and right, alliances basically sending out MM's to stop buying gold from TG and stop playing the game? I wont even bother explaining you the problems with rollback and why it ruins everything. Just because it was a solution and implemented in a few days, I won't give a pat on TG's back and say bravo! It is their mistake and this was the very least they could do. The speed of the customer server is just a proxy for how big of a fuck up this was.

    Just because it didn't have a big impact on your personal gameplay, it doesn't mean that this was not a big deal on the rest of the community. I guess you are instinctively defending TG but I am still surprised that you take this very lightly, where people I assume you consider friends are writing essays on Skype and Discord.

    We all know the code is old and needs to be rewritten. Have it ever crossed your mind that they may be doing just that?

    Of course not! Why would I make such an assumption unless TG releases a detailed statement about it? It is completely up to TG if the code wasn't documented or wasn't rewritten in 15 years. It could be due to a million different things, but the bottom line is that it was a shit show and all the players feel disappointed and cheated. Ignoring these complaints by bringing tangential excuses will not help. Neither TG nor we all should do that. Instead, TG should listen to their loyal players, own the responsibility 100%, provide sensible compensation for everyone, explain how this happened and what they will do to prevent it from happening again.

    Are you sure Obi-Wan there were not many changes in the code in, lets say, last year?

    What is many, Ele? It should be used to compare with something. All games make changes and not only on some tweaking feature like limiting confederacy system or raiding limit but a major overhaul from from graphics to objectives. And they do that upon the release in early access/beta/alpha stages so that it doesnt have a big impact on paying customer (or full price paying customers). They also do accept and announce that the game is unstable which is why the price tag is lower (or free) too.

    I know that it is unfair to compare bigger companies to TG. But let's not digress from the subject - the game that is been around for 15 years can be completely broken down to an extent that every single mechanic collapses by these changes. I don't understand how you do not find this problematic because of some wishy-washy hypothetical excuse like "Single line of code can break everything down".

    Did travian have some changes? yes, as it should. Would the changes completely break the game is coding/testing was done properly? No. The evidence is any other game that is around for more than 15 years.

    5. Game companies are shuttering doors everyday, yet TG remains after 15 years. Must be doing something right, but doesn't mean they need to be the best at it.

    I agree with most of your points but not this one and the next one. This is more of a self-deprecating argument. A game that is in this business for 15 years should not be breaking down to this extent, no matter what the excuse is (old coders didn't document or what-not). Moreover, let's face it - this type of browser game genre is very addictive and most people have love-hate relationship with travian, they just cannot quit playing the game. So it doesn't necessarily mean that TG has been doing a great job so that the playerbase is loyal.

    6. COM1 was decided long ago. Not sure why anyone would care so much. The op that preceded the bug wasn't gamechanging, just playing for pride at this point. People talking about hitting own WW, killing own troops, denying points for enemy out of spite and just basically rolling over? -- Ruining endgame? Please.

    It is not about who wins or who loses. The server was decided even before it started, looking at how stronger one got, and how weaker the other one got. You are missing the point. This bug overshadows the win and loss, one that all these players worked tirelessly for months. When it becomes clear that it will be an anti-climactic, awkward end because of these bugs, of course it is disappointing and frustrating.

    Actually there have been pretty many changes lately, from the confederation system to the bann system to the codex victoria to the different micro dynamics.

    It's obvious that if you keep the same codes nothing happens.

    I also guess you have 0 knowledge in coding, also because even the best programmers of the world often present bugs (Apple, Microsoft, Google and so on)

    Eh? I see that you try to come across as some sort of a code god but you lack the simple understanding of how game development works. If a single line of code makes the whole game completely unplayable for your entire playerbase, it signals that you failed to establish a stable foundation to start with. Then of course a tiny change could break everything. Big changes you talk about is ridiculous by the way, this is simple game in the gaming world and the changes are basic tweaks. Check all other games where they make massive changes... not only adding new features but completely revamping the essential gameplay mechanics and graphics. Of course they have bigger teams etc. but it is not the point of this discussion.

    Furthermore, if you still insist that these are such big changes, there are proper ways to test these things before integrating into the game worlds. To say the least, travian had good intentions with test servers, but was incapable of catching the bugs which ultimately means that they failed with the testing.

    It is always entertaining when one tries to portray themselves as “the master” with “I know better than you all” attitude without having any clue who s/he is talking to. I am not a developer but I have an engineering degree with coding experience. But more importantly I play variety of games and have been doing so for many years. Therefore, I do have a deep knowledge from the customer side on how the bugs are created, their impact on a gameplay, how companies approach and solve these bugs as well as how they compensate their loyal customers.

    I don't really care about what they think, but about what it happened.

    Was there any offensive operation going?

    if you didn’t really care or read how it impacted player satisfaction from the end game, I suggest you to refrain from forming strong opinions about this matter.

    Often, even only 1 line of code could generate critical bugs.

    If game developers do a bad job to construct the foundations of the codes, yes, it can happen. Yet, you see that most games identify and correct the bugs as they are reported by customers. Severity bugs are expected to decrease over time. So the game companies steadily remove the bugs and eventually turn into a stable game. That is the main concept behind alpha and beta versions. Don't find bullshit excuses to these bugs for a company that has been doing minimal changes to its gameplay and core mechanics for 10+ years.

    It is about time we realize that travian is some sort of the Benjamin Button of game development. As we progress fast towards the pre-alpha period, enjoy the game as much as you can.

    I'm just busy enjoying the irony of being branded a spy for apparently getting EAs WWK to be ghosted. Assume that makes Mazzi a spy too. #TrustNoOne

    I thought this was established after handing out the UT :/

    contact mazzi if he is not already crying in the corner...

    Apparently crying can be a hobby....!

    Afterall thats what all that SGR can do:D

    I understand that you are overly excited about the ghostings but literally nobody from SGR even left a message remotely resembling to crying about it. Yet you are repeating this for some reason. There are better ways if you want a pat on the back. That being said, it is a nice ghosting but it started to feel like beating a dead horse. Way too many mistakes at this level.