farming vs simming

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  • alestorm_UK wrote:

    I admit i've not reached those raiding figures until the second week, but the first week i started late, and another top robber in my 7x7 (not to mention i won't ever claim to be an expert raider), but I have seen raiding at that level done in the first week without cheating, without dual and without sitter
    No dual, no sitter, legit raiding = person sat in front of computer over 18 hours a day just clicking.
    ..And that is the Final Word.

  • Final Word wrote:

    alestorm_UK wrote:

    I admit i've not reached those raiding figures until the second week, but the first week i started late, and another top robber in my 7x7 (not to mention i won't ever claim to be an expert raider), but I have seen raiding at that level done in the first week without cheating, without dual and without sitter
    No dual, no sitter, legit raiding = person sat in front of computer over 18 hours a day just clicking.
    I like at least 8 hrs sleep so i'll add that to the list of reasons (excuses) why i never quite make it to the top spot in the first week
  • notorious crunchie wrote:

    Naughty wrote:

    notorious crunchie wrote:

    So what's properly then? Feel free to share your methods :thumbsup:

    Or can you not because of the whole 'rules' thing....
    Just because you can't do it without breaking the rules doesn't mean other people can't.
    of course not, yet still, you have no explaination
    Here is what I've seen:

    You get yourself a team of 3-4 duals before the start. Each dual creates his own account. Then according to best location, one account is picked, rest deleted (a little later). Each one plays solo on their own account but they may sit the "main" and vice versa. So in effect, not technically breaking the rules. If this still bothers you, small groups from your team can work together to secure early croppers exactly the same way, but it will hamper the development of the others a bit.

    Best location is:
    a) Surrounded by a lot of clay oases, or iron ones (2nd best). You don't really want Crop or Wood oases - animals populate too quickly and are often tougher to kill (bears, crocs, etc)
    b) Ideally close to a 15c with 100%+ oasis (priority changes depending on map, server, alliance planning, etc)
    c) Surrounded by non-raider types ( Gauls, Egyptians, Romans). Not to say they can't raid early, but these tribes do not have an ideal raiding troop right from the start. Teuts have maces, Huns have Mercs (cheap, but still slower than maces). So in effect, less competition means more bounty for you.

    So hopefully you've all spawned relatively near each other and one account is in an ideal spot.

    One or more of the dual/solo accounts puts his hero points all in to FS. They are the hero sacrifices to clear oases for the "main". You *can* do this with your own hero, but it's not really ideal. If you're clearing with own hero you still have to be relatively careful until you unlock auctions on day 3. Once you're able to buy ointments and cages, clearing oases becomes easier, but be prepared to spend a bit of silver. Books will also be valuable for obvious reasons.

    So generally the other support accounts are clearing while the main is reaping the rewards with their bundle of troops (adventure troops + ones built from rewards like on the Warehouse Task). Hence why you may see quite a few early top robbers with little or no attack/hero points.

    So you just keep farming the closest oases, then move on to the next one. Each oasis begins with 12h of production at start so if you're efficient with your troop building, you can clear an oasis, scoop out all the res with a group of troops and move on to the next one. Eventually, you can hit multiple oases at the same time.

    As for the simming part while raiding, technically you'd maybe get fields to 4, one 5 (cropfield), golding nearly everything.. then work on cp-efficient builds. Get your Residence to 10, TH 1, throw party immediately (by this point, should have 100+ CP rate). Buying Glad helm as soon as possible will also shave a day off your settling, and it will be expensive unless you're very, very lucky with your adventure and get a free one - even then it becomes a tug of war with "do i want to keep and get my awesome cropper, or do i want to sell and gain possibly thousands of gold?". Your choice.

    So, yea. These raiders aren't really "special", just good spot, bit of gold and lots of activity both on account and team coordinating.

    Hint for new tribe Egyptians: Egyptians already have a nice boost due to 2x hero production. Simming is your bread and butter, but if you can get your hero boosted even a few levels early then switch with a book (received in adventure, and hopefully one of the earliest ones), you could see a considerable boost in res and compete with even the Teuts for best croppers. It's risky though, and depends on luck. Keeping hero alive is the challenge, otherwise you'd be like any other Roman or Gaul if it dies.
    ..And that is the Final Word.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Final Word ().

  • Notorious Crunchie

    I don't see how you can cheat at that point in the game, the screenshots I posted above are from week 1.

    To achieve that you have to use your hero clear oases - you don't need a lot of troops just 100clubs at the start.

    Yes you need gold - to buy ointments.

    I've written multiple guides on this before but they've since been deleted from the forum with the migration to this new style.

    Perhaps I will do it again, but not if I'm just going to be accused of cheating.

    Looking at things in the depth I did on my latest thread does help you get far however - you seem to just read things at face value which is just silly in this game.

    Final Word, you have some very valid points there, but I don't agree with most.
    You don't need multiple accounts to be top raider week 1 and I disagree on pushing fields above level 3 if you're raiding at the start.

    As for Egyptians - in my eyes they're troop consumption outweighs any possible resource bonus.
  • Naughty wrote:

    Notorious Crunchie

    I don't see how you can cheat at that point in the game, the screenshots I posted above are from week 1.

    To achieve that you have to use your hero clear oases - you don't need a lot of troops just 100clubs at the start.

    Yes you need gold - to buy ointments.

    I've written multiple guides on this before but they've since been deleted from the forum with the migration to this new style.

    Perhaps I will do it again, but not if I'm just going to be accused of cheating.

    Looking at things in the depth I did on my latest thread does help you get far however - you seem to just read things at face value which is just silly in this game.

    Final Word, you have some very valid points there, but I don't agree with most.
    You don't need multiple accounts to be top raider week 1 and I disagree on pushing fields above level 3 if you're raiding at the start.

    As for Egyptians - in my eyes they're troop consumption outweighs any possible resource bonus.
    I never said you need the multiple helpers, but that it's what I've seen done more often now, and is but one path. I also wanted to explain why people might see top raiders with no hero/attack xp. You can do it solo but before access to auctions, you need to be careful. It is technically easier with Teuts, since you can build a batch of clubs and either use hero on FS only or use troops + the hero to clean. Saves on ointments, less damage to hero and even though you will lose some troops, clubs are very cheap so you still get profit if you manage a bounty. Of course, using hero to clean, then sending troops works, but you would need to time it if you want to ensure you only get the bounty. Otherwise waiting for hero (at times taking 2-3 passes), then sending troops risks someone else jumping in on your efforts.

    I definitely do not advocate early raiding with Egyptians. The milita are cheap, but I guess their hands are already full feeding grapes to the Pharoahs 'cause they can't carry much of anything. Simming is their best path (and most should play defense with Egyptians, it's their strong suit). My point is, if you're able to clear oases with Egyptian early on (not to raid, though you can - not recommended) it's only to make the hero stronger and thus increasing his res output when you switch back with book. In this way you can compete with early raiders and get a jump on the best simmers as well.
    ..And that is the Final Word.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Final Word ().

  • First of all, how about you read whole post and not just what you want? It says repeatedly that the same can be done by account alone, without any help.

    Second, we are very well aware about the rule you quotes but till TG give clear definition of playing for it's own benefit this is and will be a joke of a rule. This is team game, trying to bring it down to the level everyone for his own is pretty stupid idea. Even in the next sentence it only mentions account that are "solely" played for benefit of others" as the subject for punishment.

    Third, it is maybe an eye opening for you, but there are small teams of 2-5 accounts around that like to play together and working as a unit gain much better position FOR ALL in early game as well. For that some of the accounts on the team may get themselves in TEMPORARY disadvantage which will pay several folds in the future.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by ELE ().

  • notorious crunchie wrote:

    spielregeln.php

    give that a read

    point 1. An account cannot be played for the benefit of another account

    thus cheating
    It's only cheating really if the rule is enforced, which is never is, despite me trying to have it enforced as it can clearly give 1 account an advantage.
    Pablo Escobar COMx - WWK

    DKx Comeback Round - Brian Fantana

    PublicEnemy UKx9 - i.imgur.com/l23a9.png
  • let me tell yall what naughty says is possible and explaining how is really hard cause it depends on alot of things to how you go about it ive been a top robber inn every round ive played since my second time in the game thats thanks to a great teacher and although for t4 its alot harder now i have adjusted my methods to fit and its still possible to do a good raid start and more profitable than simming your way to v2 can be done faster with troops and then the added bonus of having the troops to continue to raid and gain even more its all about when you start troops and how you develop alongside troop production ect.... and i am always the top raider in any round i play you can ask anyone who knows me and i love to dual with sam cause together with our indian duals we can do crazy things... come watch on aux when it starts you will know who we are top raider attacker and simmer the first week that should be us! and yes it takes alot of time thats why you need a good dual or two and you need to take turns doing the work.... i mean you want results with anything you have to put in the time to make the result and the more time u put in the more you get out right
  • I normally have level 6/7 fields before settling v2. When I calculate my production versus raiders, almost no raiders are making my production. Getting to 7s is the trick as both level 6 and 7 fields award 1 CP so you are building for resources and CP simultaneously at this point:

    My production - easy to see - boosted by hero production.

    Raider production, top10 raider stats, divided by hours of the week, then averaged up based on exponential raiding growth for each day (or you can write their number down and then check it again in 12hrs). Then add to this estimated fields which will be much lower, subtract estimated troop consumption, and subtract cost of troop losses.

    E.g. at level 6 fields on day 5 I am making ~2444/hr with no troop cost, almost no raiders are making 60K per day after allowing for troop costs. At this point it is 1 more day of fields/CP buildings then residence and 3 settlers to settle on day 7.

    Then after town 2 I still have this production with no troop cost/upkeep and can boom that into my cropper, and zero risk from competing raiders. This is how simmers win this challenge.
    UK5,1 Annoying Gaul/CDT, UK5,2 Colt Seavers/Geoffles, Au1,3 Stringfellow/AoW, Au4,2 Spirit/KGB, TKCom2 Stringfellow/xTools, UK3,8 Spirit/Resurge, UK1,10 Tauriel/Havoc, UK1/11 Incognito/Betrayed
    #9 crop UK T3, first in clubbies, #2 attacker, #10 hero
    Your game don't scare me, I got hit by this
  • That CP vs field building is impressive, I usually only do wheat to 6 for a day seven settle. Not sure how you can produce enough CP in that time whilst focusing so heavily on fields. Would love to see your maths one day.

    But yes, no raiders are making that much. Which is why simming for me is the way to settle a prime cropper. Especially when raiding always runs the risk of losing troops you can't afford to
  • Cretin_UK wrote:

    I normally have level 6/7 fields before settling v2. When I calculate my production versus raiders, almost no raiders are making my production. Getting to 7s is the trick as both level 6 and 7 fields award 1 CP so you are building for resources and CP simultaneously at this point:
    The key word is "almost". It depends on what we discussion here - how to settle among first or how to settle just faster. This is mathematically impossible (I would be happy if you proof me wrong) to settle before day 7 simming. It is possible and done faster with raiding. Early game GOOD raiding absolutely beats any simming. But you need to know what you are doing, be active 24/7 for first days out of BP and have some luck with farms.

    Tombo457 wrote:

    It's only cheating really if the rule is enforced, which is never is, despite me trying to have it enforced as it can clearly give 1 account an advantage.
    The problem is TG is trying to enforce the "your own benefit" rule. Results of it are a) huge reduction of farms b) deletion of random small (and not that small) accounts alive accounts

    The post was edited 1 time, last by m.hudson ().

  • the key word isnt even almost the fact is are you taking into account the raiders have the fields too maybe even higher than yours? you see the fact i mentioned top simmer too the raiding income boosts fields faster and allows you to get cps faster as well as training more troops your fields still continue to rise!!! honestly its pretty hard to explane but raiding is the way to do it do not stop simming though! you need the cps for a start
  • As someone who plays for endgame, the idea of spending res on troops and starting a hammer that early is a bit pointless. I'd rather start building a strong economy so that I can go on to build my WWK / endgame anvil.

    That said, hammers will always be needed to remove pesky neighbours, at any stage of the game... Someone else's job though if you ask me :p

    & good to see you back @SmOkE!
    "It’s only when the tide goes out that you see who was swimming naked."

    #MakeTravianGreatAgain #MTGA
  • ELE wrote:


    Tombo457 wrote:

    It's only cheating really if the rule is enforced, which is never is, despite me trying to have it enforced as it can clearly give 1 account an advantage.
    The problem is TG is trying to enforce the "your own benefit" rule. Results of it are a) huge reduction of farms b) deletion of random small (and not that small) accounts alive accounts
    With your post edited by admin it's hard to tell if this is exactly what you wrote, but you'll find that it is exactly the opposite. Travian do not and have not enforced the 'play an account to your own benefit' rule, which is why mega accounts are becoming more prevalent in the last year or two.
    Pablo Escobar COMx - WWK

    DKx Comeback Round - Brian Fantana

    PublicEnemy UKx9 - i.imgur.com/l23a9.png
  • Tombo457 wrote:

    With your post edited by admin it's hard to tell if this is exactly what you wrote, but you'll find that it is exactly the opposite. Travian do not and have not enforced the 'play an account to your own benefit' rule, which is why mega accounts are becoming more prevalent in the last year or two.
    The admin deleted a couple of adjectives that did not change the meaning. I have seen that rule enforced on a couple of com servers this year and I am watching it enforced on beta right now. First two were more or less reasonable (even though also with many mistakes) but on beta it is just funny because we officially were to run 2 accounts and it is beta, no one cares really.

    The outcome is the same though - farms are deleted at the rate I have not seen before.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by ELE ().