Farmlists question/segguestions

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    • Farmlists question/segguestions

      Hi.

      I want ask a question as well make a few suggestions about farmlists.
      First the question:
      Why are farmlists limited to 100 farms? Why so little? Have devs ever explained the reason or is this just a random number that was given to it?
      Which immediately brings me to my first suggestion:
      1. Let us have more than 100 farms per list. Make it 1000? I mean even 200 would already be quite an improvement, but honestly the more the better.

      2. gives non-gold club users access to farm lists. putting harsher limits is fine.. like reducing the number of farms they can add (like it is limited to 100 right now, can make it 50? 30? I dont know..) or limiting the number of lists they can create... the point is they should still have some sort of access to farmlists.
      Reason: farmlists are an EXTREMELY powerful tool to raid and gain resources and increase army strength. The game already feels pretty pay2win with silver auctions, permanent +25% res production boosts (for those who can afford it that is) and even merging troops with gold. Locking such a powerful tool behind a payment doesn't help the issue.

      3. let us see how many raids/land times of raids are on the way in the list to a specific villa.
      How? -You know if you go to Map, you will see villages you are raiding, those will have red crossed swords. If you hover your mouse the swords it shows an arrival time (from my experience the arrival of the last wave on that specific villa)
      Implement the same thing for farmlists swords.
      See picture:
      Where it says "own attacking troops" it would be nice if it said when the last wave is landing (or even better a list with all the landing times of all the waves).
      This would help greatly keep track of when last wave is landing (useful for stuff like when rams gonna to take out walls in a Natar villa, etc)

      That is all for now.
      Thanks.
    • Farm lists used to have no size limit. They added the limits to improve game performance. People sending out too many raids with one click would lag the server for everyone. It was a noticeable improvement when they added the limit so we’re not likely to see it removed.
      S6-r1 The_Chuck S8-r1 Lanie S5-r3 Tyche S7-r3 Chuckles
      S2-r6 Tommo and rebuild S1-r7 Country S5-r7 Office Space S19-r2 The Joker
      S19-r3 Chuckles
    • 100 is quite low really even i dnt raid but whenever i click i feel bored cause it refreshes everytime.. if it doesnt refreshes while being in fl i would like that too..only drawback is i must know which fl i have clicked so far..easy if it doesnt refreshes ..
    • BudSpencer wrote:

      trp111 wrote:

      Oh I did not know that, thanks. So much for that then. Unfortunate for those of us with 1000s of farms.
      If you have 1000s of farms, you are doing sth horribly wrong. Ever heard of "effeciency". But you also raid with 2 Steppe Riders. So maybe effeciency is not sth you put a big focus on.
      can u tell me more abt it if u have spare time and dnt mind sharing...
      what do u mean when u said ... raid with 2 stepee riders and its not efficient.. u mean he should send 1 steppe ? well i somewhat familiar with it as my dual used to send single ei for raids for me its quite risky still 1 ei remained for whole round whenver we sent raids.. sadly we could only send couple of times like 6-8 hours a day..i was satisfied with extra income other than simming though.. but will love to know more about raiding and some tips about it...

      also about why is it bad to have 1k farm? cause we spend more time clicking ? as well as distance they take ?
    • Mr.YP_AU wrote:

      BudSpencer wrote:

      trp111 wrote:

      Oh I did not know that, thanks. So much for that then. Unfortunate for those of us with 1000s of farms.
      If you have 1000s of farms, you are doing sth horribly wrong. Ever heard of "effeciency". But you also raid with 2 Steppe Riders. So maybe effeciency is not sth you put a big focus on.
      can u tell me more abt it if u have spare time and dnt mind sharing...what do u mean when u said ... raid with 2 stepee riders and its not efficient.. u mean he should send 1 steppe ? well i somewhat familiar with it as my dual used to send single ei for raids for me its quite risky still 1 ei remained for whole round whenver we sent raids.
      Bizarrely enough, it’s acrtually riskier to send two steppes than it is to send one. As long as you have enough smithy upgrades (level 4 for EI, level 5 for steppes), solo raiders won’t die to the "anti solo mechanism" even with max morale. The way the combat formulas work out, you're slightly less likely to lose a solo raider than you are to lose half of a pair of raiders. That is to say anything that would kill a solo EI would have also killed at least one of a pair, but not everything that will kill one of a pair will also kill a solo.
      S6-r1 The_Chuck S8-r1 Lanie S5-r3 Tyche S7-r3 Chuckles
      S2-r6 Tommo and rebuild S1-r7 Country S5-r7 Office Space S19-r2 The Joker
      S19-r3 Chuckles
    • BudSpencer wrote:

      trp111 wrote:

      Oh I did not know that, thanks. So much for that then. Unfortunate for those of us with 1000s of farms.
      If you have 1000s of farms, you are doing sth horribly wrong. Ever heard of "effeciency". But you also raid with 2 Steppe Riders. So maybe effeciency is not sth you put a big focus on.
      When you have enough steppes 1000 farms isn't a problem really. And yes, we raid most farms with a single steppe.
    • @
      Mr.YP_AU


      One unit raiding:

      As long as you don´t have enough troops, simply raid with a single unit. You need to upgrade the EI to level 4 to do that.

      Say a farm produces 600 resource per hour and you farm with EIs (we omit Steppe Riders since they are not on standard worlds).

      Then it is actually way better to send 1 EI every 10 mins (6 per hour = 600 resources) than it is to send 2 EIs thrice per hour. Even though they´d collect the same amount if they all come back full, the smaller splits being sent more often, allow you to collect more if others raid as well.

      Single unit raiding only works with EIs, ECs, TKs and Heads. The others do not have enough basic attack for this.

      I obviously also have 4,5 or sometimes even 10 EIs on a single farm (I call them juicy farms). Simply click on the village and you see the latest 5 reports and the bag symbol (full or empty). If it´s 4 or 5 full bags shown, simply add one unit. After few hours, do it again. If it´s again with 4 or 5 full bags, add another.

      You can also scout farm and calculate resource production and adjust troops accordingly.
      Number of farms:

      The more farms you have, the further away the farms are and the longer the raids take. Let´s assume we have no tournament square and no bonuses for speed and I illustrate that example with only one EI. We also disregard crop consumption

      At 1000 farms, I´d say that you have farms in your list that are 140 fields away (FARM A).

      That is a 10 hr trip with EIs one way, so 20hrs for the whole trip. Now, you send 1 EI and he comes back full. That´s 100 resources. That would be an hourly of 100/20 =5 resources. So that raid would total 5 resources per hour.

      One would love the full bounty/haul on that raid, right? Mmh,not so much as 5 resources/hour is pretty low.

      NOW

      Just image you have a 2 pop village 7 fields away (FARM B). That one EI would take 1 hour to complete the raid. Which is 20 times faster than the raid to FARM A. So, to be as effective as the above FARM A, the average loot raided from FARM B has to be 5 (5*20=100).

      So even though, you only get 5% per raid on the close farm, it is as effecient as the farm that way farther away. And trust me, even 2 pop farms return more than 5% every trip (on average), but if you are unlucky, one player just raided the farther away farm and you return with nothing.

      (obviously, I assume you are active and have enough duals to consistently farm).

      So, instead of adding more and more farms, you should shorten the click time before.

      But with a excel sheet you can easily calculate the effeciency. That´s only 5th grade math.

      If you follow those rules, you´ll have no trouble being top raider with your dual only, obv.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by BudSpencer ().

    • BudSpencer wrote:

      Let´s assume we have no tournament square and no bonuses for speed and I illustrate that example with only one EI.
      I know you're doing this for simplicity probably, but that is literally never the case for any serious raider.


      BudSpencer wrote:

      One would love the full bounty/haul on that raid, right? Mmh,not so much as 5 resources/hour is pretty low.

      NOW

      Just image you have a 2 pop village 7 fields away (FARM B). That one EI would take 1 hour to complete the raid. Which is 20 times faster than the raid to FARM A. So, to be as effective as the above FARM A, the average loot raided from FARM B has to be 5 (5*20=100).

      So even though, you only get 5% per raid on the close farm, it is as effecient as the farm that way farther away. And trust me, even 2 pop farms return more than 5% every trip, but if you are unlucky, one player just raided the farther away farm and you return with nothing.

      (obviously, I assume you are active and have enough duals to consistently farm).

      But with a excel sheet you can easily calculate the effeciency. That´s only 5th grade math.
      How is this relevant? I don't have an infinite supply of 2 pop villages in my close proximity, so what does this so-called efficiency matter? If I'm farming something 100 fields away... I'm farming all targets within those 100 fields. I'm not only sending units away to farm minimum 50 fields from me. This is utter non-sense. You expand your farmlist outwards, not inwards - i.e. you start with the closest farms first, since, indeed, the troops get there and return faster.

      The radius of your farming should depend on troop count and how often you send. I send raids every 10-25 minutes when I'm online on a server I play atm, without ever running out of troops from sending these micro-raids. This means that there is absolutely no reason not to farm more than 100 fields away. If I literally only had one EI... And it was a choice between sending it on the close 2 pop farm, or on the far away one giving me full bounty... Sure, it matters. But this argument of yours does absolutely nothing to prove why having a lot of farms/far away farms on your farmlist is bad.

      If I can send troops every 10 minutes to all farms within 100 fields, just the same as all farms within 50 fields, your above example does nothing to prove why it would be bad. If you run out of troops after sending 1-10 times, then what you're saying is something to consider... But no serious raider does that.


      When you first posted, I thought you were thinking more towards macro-raiding, which can be very good if you do it right, take the time to do it, and don't have too many others jumping on the juicy farms too quickly. But turns out that was not at all what you were aiming for... So no idea why on earth you would think the above would matter... for anyone else than people who don't know how to farm - and those people would never have 500+ farms on their farmlist anyway lol.

      Seems like your 5th grade math didn't do much for your understanding of how to play the game...



      Edit: well, by editing your post while I was typing, you made this whole post irrelevant. I'm glad you cleared up your post yourself though, since it made no sense before.

      I still disagree with you saying that having 1k farms = you're doing something wrong no matter what. With your edit, you show that you know it isn't the case.


      Animis opibusque parati

      com8 (F&S beta) and now back to retirement...
    • Since Steppes were mentioned, ROA certainly is relevant. On ROA, 140 tiles is less than a three hour round trip for most top Hun farmers with the doubled powered tournament squares and speed artifacts that are shared for the entire alliance. Under those circumstances you can round trip anywhere on the map in four and a half hours.
      S6-r1 The_Chuck S8-r1 Lanie S5-r3 Tyche S7-r3 Chuckles
      S2-r6 Tommo and rebuild S1-r7 Country S5-r7 Office Space S19-r2 The Joker
      S19-r3 Chuckles
    • Budspencer i appreciate your efforts in letting me understand it.. Thankyou.. we ofc use to raid even 300+ squares away in other quad so we all know what have to be done... but efficieny with most outcome is clearley what define normal and expert raider..well i normally played solo sim account so never thought of raiding but its pretty obvious if u have more off villa then use some in raiding than to feed them for just some random hits..
      by look of level 5 smithy it seems minimum hit point is around 125+ for single troops farming ? 127 is for ei..
      also i have to increase troops count only when all bags are full.. right?
      i will try to follow it next time i try my luck :)


      @wishmaster3 i am sure bud knows all about it but he practically targeted early simming farm when we generally have no to 10 lvl ts.. and surely i was looking for early farming so i can better get more income than to just follow my same stupid sim for troops strategy and couldnt provide enough support to ally....


      btw Animis opibusque parati ---- this one seems like eximus logo.. i dnt rexact remember it but it sounds same like i heard it in around 2008 or 2009 period.. ummmi guess it was com1 or comx ...eximus gow pot alliances.... pardon me if i sound stupid more than i try to be :p

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Paperman ().

    • :D i was kicked from eximus ..i was in g or somthing group.. cause i got a dual from com forum and he was kinda spy :( poor me.. from top 100 in a week to top 1k in 24 hours.. i was off cause if exam and when i cam back villa was nicely destroyed by same ally.. that was so moving for me ;( ... now when i remember those time i just laugh... those classic servers were real bliss..no need to waste gold and no worries about loss apart from some feelings...
    • @
      wishmaster3

      Please re read what I wrote and try to understand it. All the things you wrote are correct and I know you did not understand what I was intending to say. I was illustrating an effeciency model.

      Quite like the saying: Build the people a fountain and you gonna supply them until it runs out. Show them how to build a fountain and they have water for their life.


      What I actually did was that I brought all the things down to one common factor. Why? Cause it is maths. And the beatuy of maths is that you can then go ahead and add all the great things like tournament square, raiding intervalls, troop count etc.. And it does not change anything from a effeciency perspective and how you calculate it. I don´t know how good you are at maths? I have a diploma, so I know the approach for sure.

      I was just bringing everything down to 1 and no bonuses. It is just an effeciency model illustration, not a guide on how to set up the farm list.

      That was my whole intention. Cause players were writing about 1000s of farms, when this is even not effecient. I have been top raider at any world I have played. Maybe cause of maths. Cause the whole game is maths. And I never have added a farm 100 fields or farther away.
    • Tineren wrote:

      Since Steppes were mentioned, ROA certainly is relevant. On ROA, 140 tiles is less than a three hour round trip for most top Hun farmers with the doubled powered tournament squares and speed artifacts that are shared for the entire alliance. Under those circumstances you can round trip anywhere on the map in four and a half hours.
      That does not matter. When it takes 3hrs for 140 fields then it also takes less time to travel 5, 10 or 15 fields. Sure, tsq calculations are a little different cause of the 20+ fields speed, but the basic concept is the same.

      Simply a model.
    • BudSpencer wrote:

      Please re read what I wrote and try to understand it.
      Please re-read my edit, that I made after I saw you had edited your post while I was typing.


      BudSpencer wrote:

      Cause players were writing about 1000s of farms, when this is even not effecient. I have been top raider at any world I have played. Maybe cause of maths. Cause the whole game is maths. And I never have added a farm 100 fields or farther away.
      You say you were only explaining efficiency... Yet then you go ahead and say something like this.

      It doesn't matter if it's as efficient as raiding within 100 fields or not. You still didn't provide any explanation as to why you shouldn't raid farther than 100 fields... If you have the troop count for it. If I have the troops to send raids as often to farms from 0 up to 150 fields away, as to farms within 100 fields, there is no reason not to do so even given your "model". Yes, the further away farms will be less efficient, but it will still give you an overall higher profit.

      Good for you - probably weren't the most competitive servers then - or you did plenty of macro raiding too. Or maybe you clicked your farmlist every 2 minutes 24/7? The fewest people can/want to do that...

      Hence why I said the radius you send to should depend on troop count and how often you send, regardless of "efficiency". If you can and want to increase the amount of times you send per hour/day, then you limit your radius so you always have troops to send. But if you don't want to decrease time between launching raids indefinitely, you increase the farming radius.

      When I was only raiding within 50 fields, I sent every 10-25 mins. Now that I raid up to 180 fields, I send every 10-25 mins. I don't want to send more often than that, because then I'd be doing nothing else than clicking on farmlists on travian whenever I was at the PC.

      More farms sent to every 10 mins = more income. Seeing as you say you have a diploma in math, this shouldn't be hard to grasp. Unless you now want to argue you should only send to the single farm that is 5 fields from your village, and nothing else, since it's the most efficient village to raid, and everything else is comparably less efficient. But I'm pretty sure you won't argue that.



      Edit: seeing as you were talking about in game merits, despite saying it is purely a question of math...

      JlXBHaC.png


      Animis opibusque parati

      com8 (F&S beta) and now back to retirement...
    • wishmaster3 wrote:

      When I was only raiding within 50 fields, I sent every 10-25 mins. Now that I raid up to 180 fields, I send every 10-25 mins. I don't want to send more often than that, because then I'd be doing nothing else than clicking on farmlists on travian whenever I was at the PC.
      I don´t care about pics, really. I was writing guides dating back to 2006 with bookmark farming etc.. I can guarantee you I can get you at least a 25% boost if I made a review of your FLs.

      Ok, if you don´t want to be clicking every 10mins, fine. But then do not talk about effeciency with me.

      Clicking 50 farms every 10mins is more effecient than clicking 100 farms every 20mins. Why? I hope you know yourself. If you don´t want to click more, then it´s fine and it obviously makes sense to add more farms. But it is not the best way. And I am talking about the best way.

      All I was doing was to compare two villages and the effeciency of farming (I used good numbers for illustration, 100 capacity, 140 fields on a EI with 14 speed etc)). Nothing else. I don´t know what´s so hard to understand.

      I agree with everything you wrote. But you simply imply that I said this and that when I did not do it.

      You know: I gave players a hint on how to look at effeciency. And you reply to my post and say "You did not make them a farmlist"

      I was not presenting the product, but the path to the product.

      Maybe the fact the this is not my native language is another factor why you dont understand me.