Alliance Leaders Meeting

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    • Or maybe if you people displayed more patience instead of bursting in rage everytime things don't go exactly as you wish you would have made progress.

      Not all, but look at your attitude and those similar. It's because of behavior like this that TG doesn't probably invest much time regarding UK in the first place.


      There are many who try to be reasonable and solve problems while others just rush on forum and decisiona like apes then blame others for it.


      I honestly like the UK community, fun people and some can be nice... but stuff like this just maked those look worse.

      Blobfish - si2 2017/18
    • iRonik wrote:

      Or maybe if you people displayed more patience instead of bursting in rage everytime things don't go exactly as you wish you would have made progress.

      Not all, but look at your attitude and those similar. It's because of behavior like this that TG doesn't probably invest much time regarding UK in the first place.


      There are many who try to be reasonable and solve problems while others just rush on forum and decisiona like apes then blame others for it.
      Well I'm waiting for Meme to get approval from Ameno to post the minutes.

      If she doesn't...

      I think they should be posted anyway so that you need not take my word for it.
    • Again, if she doesn't agree then you'll jump on her for that. I don't know what was happening there but tbh, writing skype chat isn't really a professional and serious way of bringing ideas out. No matter why you didn't want voice in first place, its harder to take writing serious because everything is too impersonal and its easier to eat up conversation. Next time get people who are comfortable for skype calls or something similar and then you won't have those problems you mentioned. Give solution, don't blame everyone immediatly, improve upon experience. At the end, this was 1st meeting of that sort, what did you expect? Why not solve communication ways first so it's easier to have more efficient following meetings.
    • MarkokraM wrote:

      Again, if she doesn't agree then you'll jump on her for that. I don't know what was happening there but tbh, writing skype chat isn't really a professional and serious way of bringing ideas out. No matter why you didn't want voice in first place, its harder to take writing serious because everything is too impersonal and its easier to eat up conversation. Next time get people who are comfortable for skype calls or something similar and then you won't have those problems you mentioned. Give solution, don't blame everyone immediatly, improve upon experience. At the end, this was 1st meeting of that sort, what did you expect? Why not solve communication ways first so it's easier to have more efficient following meetings.
      That was never a problem. It needed no solution. We had all discussed the points in detail prior to the conversation via text fine.

      We were asked on the day if we could do a Skype call. A couple said yes, but the majority said no. We went for text and Ameno said she was happy to continue with text.

      Then spent half an hour asking why it wasn't a call.

      Also I have read the minutes now, and they have been censored to exclude Ameno's delaying.

      I have requested that they be put back in along with timings so that people can see how much of it was wasted.

      Otherwise you will have to take my word for it. But I don't approve of censoring the chat.

      I do however have a single screenshot from where we thought we were finally able to talk about the topic at hand... And then it was taken back to Skype.

    • Thing i see here that even though ameno agreed on text chat before like you said, she obviously wasn't comfortable in doing it once the meeting started. Things change you know, maybe it was harder than expected being in room with 5-6 people who demand answers. You should start thinking about that instead of trying to put ameno on wall of shame here lol
      But then again, that's just me, trying to see other perspective aswell :/
    • I don't think there should be meeting minutes posted. Since it's text skype-chat, we don't need "meeting minutes", do we? I agree full text to be published on forum and that was actually my offer and question at the beginning of the meeting.

      Few points.

      1) @Mercedes, sorry, but for me "live-web-stream" that has been mentioned multiple times during the preparation stage means "audio" and not text. I once again confirmed audio format in my message a week ago and even if you wrote to me that "we decided to go text, I hope it's fine with you" 30 min before the meeting (and I actually read it only 5 min before) it can't change anything. Sorry, It's not fine with me. You can't change format neither 30 min in advance, nor 5 min in advance and expect that the other person can answer 16 questions within 1h. Even if we had skipped introduction part and "getting to know each other better", it would have given us 3.5 minutes per question which I planned (and prepared) to answer with the voice, and not as a written text.

      2) We agreed on time and date, I agreed on your time and date during my off-hours to talk to the community leaders at their convenient time, though it's clearly not convenient for me. I am sorry, that I ended conversation at 10:30 p.m. my time, but given that we (not even fully, but kind of in a rush) covered 2.5 points out of 16 of the agenda, I could estimate, that even if everyone was willing to proceed as it was, it would take time till morning.

      3) I asked question that I am not afraid to repeat here. If it's simple text chat, why we need to do it with just 8 chosen people, even though they are alliance leaders in a really limited time, when we have forum where we can take more time and give more detailed answer to each of the questions raised, and do that publicly. I could understand that in audio format, but in text for 1 hour - this is simply impossible.

      4) I am fine to give answers to all 16 mentioned questions. Here. On forum. Where everyone (not even registered users) can read it. It can be Q. and A. in one thread, it can be 16 threads where I give 16 answers, it doesn't matter, but I am 100% sure it's really more convenient than having a chat where multiple people are writing questions and expect one person to answer them immediately and without any hesitation. I am also fine to organize follow up live web-stream or use Discord unofficial channel with time limits, where I can answer questions from the community online. But that's a matter of further organization. I am not sure, that I am ready to do that really soon.

      Yours, Ameno
    • Hi Ameno

      Thank you for responding. As I have said repeatedly, I really appreciate that you gave your time to do this and can only reiterate my apology again that it wasn't in the format you were expecting and as everyone said in the meeting last night, we would be more than happy to reschedule. I'm sorry you aren't willing to see this as an option and appreciate that you feel you have already given up your time for this and aren't able to give any more, but as I already said I do take full responsibility for not communicating the issues we were having over an audio meeting sooner.

      Thank you for giving your permission to provide a transcript of the meeting. As soon as everyone else present has also given permission I can paste it here for everyone.

      Can I also say again that I'm really sorry that what I hoped would be a positive step to open up communications seems to have become negative again.

      Stand out Award 2017 UK

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Mercedes ().

    • Don't want to say called it... but I called it. Just keep it all on the forum instead of restricting the input to a few people who are apparently meant to be talking "for us" as leaders.

      Also iRonik and Lucky, you are starting to sound just as bitter about our bitterness than we do. What exactly did you two jumping on Medusa's back achieve there apart from polluting this thread with extra rubbish to read through.
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    • I was pretty pleased with the meeting in general, allthough i would want a voicemeeting over text.

      I never gotten a answer if if it was possible to do a follow up with voicechat instead of writing?
      This is me, but please dont tell anyone:
      UK19: Senapsgas
      UK20: Darth Jar-Jar
      COM83: Bot420
    • Sounds like I was in a different skype chat than some of you were...

      Let’s be honest, the “meeting” didn’t go as planned...We were told from the beginning that it would be on voice, and the people who were chosen to attend the meeting knew it was on voice...EVERYONE knew this.

      I was invited to the meeting to do the meeting minutes, which was obviously not needed, when the whole thing happened on text...The whole conversation should go up later.

      It’s actually so sad to see that whenever TG try to communicate with us, you somehow manage to scare them away...

      @Mercedes thanks for trying to plan all of this, but I do believe that we should just have an open discussion about all the different topics here on forum or even on the unofficial discord server.


    • Ameno, I felt that the text chat did make it borderline inquisitorial and I get why it made you potentially feel a bit ambushed.

      I'm sure that was never anyone's intention, purely just a matter of convenience or necessity for the attendees.

      I think ultimately all anyone wants is a platform to give TG ideas. We're all nuts enough about this game to spend the better part of our days playing it and personally I just want TG to recognise that I and a lot of the others here have thoughts and ideas on how best to improve the Travian experience for current and future players.

      As the players/leaders on the frontline in a game as consuming and nuanced as Travian we have a shed load of ideas. Sometimes it is frustrating when you repeatedly communicate these ideas and are unsure of whether they've been considered.

      The best thing about being part of this process for me was being in a chat with 30 or so other people who were equally as passionate and informed about the game, all who shared the same concerns. We didn't all see eye to eye on everything, but it was great to see so many ideas coming forward and people genuinely being enthused at the prospect of having a platform to really make some suggestions to TG and feeling they would be considered in some detail.

      I would like to see a platform, whether that be on the forum or on webstreams, whereby we can make suggestions to TG and there is a publicly accessible communication that shows us that the idea has been considered and the reasons why it will or won't be adopted and a timeline for when we may see it incorporated into the game or forum experience.

      I appreciate it's not an easy thing because ultimately that's not how Travian was set up or designed. We want to interact with TG, we don't want the game to keep declining and we're confident that if we can find constructive ways to put our heads together with the Devs and decision makers at TG, we can help be part of the solution.

      I said 'we' there a lot, I hope a few people agree or I'll look a bit of a mug :D
    • Well, there were plenty of nay-sayers who were hoping this project would fail and am sure are now very happy, but like @-SR I also got a huge amount out of the opportunity to talk en masse to a group of really interested and committed people and see the wealth of ideas they were able to bring to the table. There must be some more constructive way of sharing those and particularly getting feedback on them, because ten years of experience from the forum has not made people feel listened to here. I'm not sure what Discord can do differently but am happy to find out.

      I'm only sorry that the meeting didn't go as planned and that it would seem that there isn't going to be an opportunity to put this right.

      Here is the link to the full transcript. Sometimes it's easy reading back to see things that you missed at the time. I thought Ameno had said yes OK to it being changed to a text conversation when I spoke to her briefly before the meeting, but it turns out she was under the impression that it would still be an audio call with just some attendees typing which accounts in a large part for the confusion. I really, really wish she had agreed to reschedule so that we could have ironed out those kinks rather than proceeding and hitting a wall. I guess that's sometimes an issue with communication between different languages and trying to organise something that involves a lot of people.

      Since this is the first time this has been tried, to start pointing fingers at each other and throwing around blame seems to me to be totally counter productive. I've already taken full responsibility for the misunderstandings over the format of the meeting. There were a lot of positives from this exercise, not least the opportunity for a committed group of people to work together productively.

      Enjoy reading. Or not. Whatever you want to take from it will be what you want to see.

      leaders meeting minutes - Google Docs

      At some point in the future I think it would be great if people could think of how we could get the feedback from Ameno on the other points we raised since she has clearly gone to the trouble to look for answers to them. Forum threads would be fine if that's the way everyone prefers.

      Stand out Award 2017 UK

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Mercedes ().

    • -SR wrote:

      I would like to see a platform, whether that be on the forum or on webstreams, whereby we can make suggestions to TG and there is a publicly accessible communication that shows us that the idea has been considered and the reasons why it will or won't be adopted and a timeline for when we may see it incorporated into the game or forum experience.
      The inspiration for the Veteran Legends Project originated from wanting something exactly like that. The forum isn't designed to allow proper ideation to occur and there is no real feedback loop. We submit ideas, CMs send them to HQ... then nothing. The process needs to be both ways. My goal was to set up a site that would improve the community side of that loop. I haven't been able to do that. I lack the technical skills to set up the right kind of site or the funds to pay for out of box solutions. Other considerations have kept me from trying to build a technical team to achieve the goal. The hope was once the site was up and growing, TG would see the value and a feedback loop could be established. The Legends HQ team employs "Agile" principles. There are two important concepts from Agile development that are relevant to us;

      A) Transparency

      B) Product Backlog

      The "ideation platform" (IP) could be linked to the product backlog. Basically the IP would help inform the relevant Legends teams what the communities priorities are, helping the product owner rank items in the product backlog. This would allow the sprint teams to better pick what they work on. It would also provide a visible feedback loop, as the relevant teams could mark ideas on the IP with different tags, as well as provide explanations and timelines. I would hope as well that it would lead to more frequent implementation of "new" things, though that may also require increasing the size of the Legends teams.

      Goals:
      • Prevent duplicate ideas
      • Allow easy searching of active ideas
      • Allow voting for and against ideas (including different "versions" of ideas)
      • Allow players to take raw ideas and refine them into more detailed proposals
      • Provide method of relevant TG team to put feedback on ideas - whether it is accepted, rejected, in progress, timeline + reason for whatever classification
      • Provide method for giving approximate timelines of when ideas will be implemented
      Example Site:
      feedback.discordapp.com/forums/326712-discord-dream-land

      Example Out of the Box Software:
      crowdicity.com/product/discover/idea-management

      Obviously an actual IP for Legends would need customization but there provide some context as to what I'd like to see. A system like this would engage the community in the development process, make them feel understood and listened too, lead to better development prioritization and a better game. It would take some work to set up, but if the relevant stakeholders got on board I think something like this could be made live within the year. I had hoped to be in a position of power to push for an IP, but my efforts to attain those positions have failed. So instead if we want to see something like this, we as a community will need to exert our collective power to push HQ towards the idea. I think with a little unity we can.
      Veteran Legends Site|Join Our Discord
      Community Feedback | Game Encyclopedia | History Anthology | 3rd-Party Tool Modernization

      Carni wrote:

      God I would kill to have like 4 of you on every team I play
    • I appreciate all effort you put in to this guys and girls I would like to thank you for a great job you have done...

      After reading skype chat converastion it sounds to me like a small failure but I dont want to blame any side...

      I would like to see all 16 points having their own tread where Ameno answer each of them with open conversation for all people as imo few chosen alliance leaders dont corespond with full player base...

      Everybody ingame can click on forum icon and come here and read all topics and even add their own opinion to any of 16 points raised. Before you start with saying that most people dont come to forum etc. here I offer you solution for that. I am sure there could be in game message in form of normal IGM or in news/event tab on left side accross all UK servers with link to forum and small saying(in form of Uncle Sam: I Want You) to come and make their voice to be heard by TG employees.

      Add some survey in topic if what people read it was interesting or something what bother them at all or they dont see it as issue in game. Some poeple might read it but dont want write anything they can at least vote in some survey.
      I CAN

      GOTN = Group Of The Noobs = 38 members with 70+ multi/push accounts = cross quad meta with 200+ players = pathetic
    • Lemon wrote:

      Sounds like I was in a different skype chat than some of you were...

      Let’s be honest, the “meeting” didn’t go as planned...We were told from the beginning that it would be on voice, and the people who were chosen to attend the meeting knew it was on voice...EVERYONE knew this.

      I was invited to the meeting to do the meeting minutes, which was obviously not needed, when the whole thing happened on text...The whole conversation should go up later.

      It’s actually so sad to see that whenever TG try to communicate with us, you somehow manage to scare them away...

      @Mercedes thanks for trying to plan all of this, but I do believe that we should just have an open discussion about all the different topics here on forum or even on the unofficial discord server.


      Actually I was told the morning of the discussion that it would be a call. I said that this would not be possible as I would be on my work machine.