History Uk4 (2016/2017)

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    • History Uk4 (2016/2017)

      Hello all,

      My dual Pia and I started this server, because she wanted to try out how things are on uk scene. At first we decided to move out of the centre, cause neither one of us had time for dodging attacks every night also we didn’t have any gold at start so we couldn’t buy gladiator. As for me I never get cropper less than 125% so we decided to move far from centre. At first we wanted to play defense, but later on when I realized we have one of the best cropper in alliance (and I was 86 fields away from spawn village) I decided to play offensive with only 2 hammers (one capital and one non capital). Cropper was on lvl 17 at day 70 I think.

      At start I was in alliance FED, which looked nice, but when i saw raiding from GMC, I decided to join them. This was probably a mistake, because when FED and GMC merged there wasn’t much action through server :(. Later on when artes came there was first shown lack of communication and lack of leadership power.

      Speaking of artes, when they came (1h early and I warned all of GMC players that admins made mistake at info box, yet only 2 of them wake up at time), I told 1 min after artes spawned that I will be sending to unique fool, and waited 5 minutes and then send to it, and yet then some guy hell kaiser showed up 1h late and said he will send to it, and refused to give it to me (trade for something else), so I decided to clear large academic (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/498609507bf). Armies in artes was surprisingly low. We got quite a few nice artes (legs, trainers, and some diets), yet we didn’t know how to use them correctly. Through the server there was almost zero maneuvering of small academic :/.

      Next some players from alliance Gimp deleted their accounts and cleared our WW, but still our builder didn’t take it and have time to build extra GW, GG, and a lot of troops to raid nearby villages for wheat. So it was up to me to clear that WW from spawning too many troops (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/498611026b9,49861245b6e,498613b2f9b).

      Then I decided that I should start attacking some players, and for that I needed small haste, otherwise I would travel to enemies 24h+. It was one of the hardest decision which alliance to attack (MM or FLG) so i faked both and that even tougher decision which artefact should I steal (haste or diet), I decided for haste which was mistake, cause we needed WWR/WWK and for that would be way better diet :C (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/498614d0f46)
      When i got haste I CKed some capitals:
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/498616a2aee
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/4986177ea81
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/49861886abd
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/4986191056b

      Through server there was only 1 real attack, one attack that try to catch my army at home and 2 strange attacks:
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/49862263595 (my bad not to move army to oasis) and big thanks to medusa who warned me about attack :)
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/49862895929
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/4986265358d
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/4986277062a

      After we finally chiefed WW village, I was really surprised that there was literally 0 support village for NPCing and if you see our neighbourhood around WW (http://prntscr.com/femueo) and then compare that to com3 (http://prntscr.com/femv3m) I think you see the difference. And that’s just one of the reasons why we lost. One other reason why we lost is that there were just not enough wheat/resource sending to WW (again lack of support villages near WW) and a lot of deff starved and we couldn’t build 24/7 which is really bad.

      Soon after plans were released (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/4986484f5fc). After I clear the plan this army was in no use for striking a WW (and i had no idea that server will last that long so i cleared another WW village) (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/498649130cb)

      After that we attack WW village from MM aliance (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/448623bf08d,448624a7465,448625bda9a,448626db3bc,4499855937e)

      WW attempt #2:
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/465639ffdc0,4656406787d,46564108ebb,465643e54b5

      Then we attacked WW for the 3rd time:
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/48525358c54,485254720ed,485279a6660,485297d5564

      4th time?
      http://forum.travian.co.uk/showthread.php?t=79754&page=4&p=1514646&viewfull=1#post1514646
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/498658d91c0

      In the meantime GMC and FLG alliance also demolished MM rammer
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/465468f4955,465469988c0,46547072776,465471d773e,465472065ea
      https://www.gettertools.com/report/1865/cWa9k2rM
      https://www.gettertools.com/report/1865/X6dz6UZH

      Reports from MM:
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/429241bf9b3,429272f2202,4290136a7c3,429015f36a6,428676858bc
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/45161242a1e,45161364630,451614958e8,4516157d606,451616078e7
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/4728858825e,4728888e4c5,472890c4097
      http://travian-reports.net/us/report/487362838fd,4873633c1c7,4873649d6a4,487365c5ea0,487366df33a,487381d05c5,48738291849,487412dd432

      At the end I would just like to said, that this was one of the longest servers I ever played. Both alliances (or at least I can speak for GMC) lack a lot in defense. Having less than 2M in WW is really bad (both alliances combined had 71 players). There was also only 3 fakes to great trainer, and only couple of fakes on off village/capital through the server.

      To end this brief history, I would like to thanks some people:
      - Pia: for registering this account with your email and for all the gold that got to this account because of you. Also big thanks for playing a lot until artes, and simming, when you left simming also stopped
      - Matej: My ex dual from Slovenian servers, thanks for all the times when you came to help (me being at seaside for a month), sending raids, npcing etc…
      - Tony (Illusion): For all the sitting and npcing when I visited my dual in Germany and stayed there for couple of nights.
      -Trouble: for being WW builder.
      - Big thanks also to MM alliance for fair and interesting game and congratulations for winning the server. You were better in almost all aspects of the game. So definitely well deserved win.

      For end I will include some stats:

      Top attacker (prntscr.com/feog2k):

      [TABLE='class: row_table_data, width: 554']
      [TR='class: hl']
      [TD='class: ra fc, bgcolor: #E7F0CA, align: right']1.[/TD]
      [TD='class: pla, bgcolor: #E7F0CA']Smelly Melly[/TD]
      [TD='class: pop, bgcolor: #E7F0CA, align: center']15000[/TD]
      [TD='class: vil, bgcolor: #E7F0CA, align: center']24[/TD]
      [TD='class: po lc, bgcolor: #E7F0CA, align: center']1983768[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [/TABLE]

      Top defender (
      prnt.sc/feog7p):

      [TABLE='class: row_table_data, width: 554']
      [TR='class: hl']
      [TD='class: ra fc, bgcolor: #E7F0CA, align: right']18.[/TD]
      [TD='class: pla, bgcolor: #E7F0CA']Smelly Melly[/TD]
      [TD='class: pop, bgcolor: #E7F0CA, align: center']15000[/TD]
      [TD='class: vil, bgcolor: #E7F0CA, align: center']24[/TD]
      [TD='class: po lc, bgcolor: #E7F0CA, align: center']144676[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [/TABLE]

      Top hero (prnt.sc/feogc8):

      [TABLE='class: row_table_data, width: 554']
      [TR='class: hl']
      [TD='class: ra fc, bgcolor: #E7F0CA, align: right']1.[/TD]
      [TD='class: pla, bgcolor: #E7F0CA']Smelly Melly[/TD]
      [TD='class: lev, bgcolor: #E7F0CA, align: center']311[/TD]
      [TD='class: xp lc, bgcolor: #E7F0CA, align: center']2433806[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [/TABLE]

      At the end there was 66 medals/stripes.

      If anyone want to access the account password is: smellygeslo91

      Best regards,

      Jure aka Smelly Melly

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Jure199 ().

    • Thanks for the kind words.

      I thought I would share a bit of MMs story too.

      At the server start a group of us who met on a previous server joined with one intention... to be ruthless. Inspired by the aggression we faced before. Once we arrived who did we see... One of our previous foes "flower". Luckily for me as his spawn was next to mine... He agreed to give us a shot, going on to become one of our core players.

      Next key event, BluesBrothers offers to create an alliance to hold our overflowing new recruits while we built the Embassy "Caesar's Army". All was well for a while... Until we tried to move our MM recruits over. Apne52 was the final straw, apparently he had been "housed free of charge" and didn't even say "thank you and good-bye". BB called me a poacher and sent Apne a load of abuse. Not even making this up. We took all we could and went to war with BB and anyone who followed him. In the mean time Crazy Jerry and crew and FL join our ranks.

      BlueSun notices a fast growing stranger a few fields away. Blue rushes cats intent on keeping his area clear, little did he know... This stranger had the same plan! But their bloody battle would never happen. Who moved next door? BluesBrothers... Ordering them to surrender or die. From that moment on we had a new ally, and he went on to build the biggest hammer on the server (as well as numerous war fighting AND backup WWKs). Wrank really was a machine and did indeed build an absolute monster! BlueSun and Wrank worked together and zeroed BluesBrothers, first blood to MM.

      We got to work clearing out the SW, destroying alliances, clearing our 9x9s and getting ready to set up camp for the cross quad wars. Then hit a snag... A uk4 player is accused of cheating, FL demand that he is kicked and I am being forced into a him or us situation. The sole reason I allowed FL to leave rather than kicking the player... I didn't like being given ultimatums. I am not always right, but I need my alliance to trust me. To allow me to make the decisions, good or bad, I will always listen, and I often change my mind. But ultimatums put my leadership into question. Who else could then manipulate me? So I said goodbye with a heavy heart and an offer of a NAP.

      We recieved a message from the NW, dsv of NW VM G. He wanted to unite the NW. To give new players an opportunity to work together, to learn and to defend against the aggressive alliances that were growing in every quad but the NW. We new we would lose farms by agreeing to partner with them... And I did have my doubts, I believed them to be inexperienced and a burden. I was wrong and I am glad that I have them a chance. They were keen to help, they were passionate and they were competitive! Constantly trying to produce more defence than us. And amongst them, unknown to me, were some very experienced and very strong players who went on to be part of our main WW killing squad (Ant, dsv, Temple, Si-Tron, Stemos and also some fantastic defenders). So we formed a Confed, but kept it secret.

      BluesBrothers is back! Trying to poach people from MM... I tell two of them to accept his invite, BlueSun and Top move over to them. They tell him they hate me and within a couple of hours between them the have full leadership powers. They claim we are catting Top in 12 hours time and call for defence from SWM. As the defence arrives, they attack themselves and kill it as it arrives bit by bit... All night! (I told you we set out to be ruthless). In the mean time, they spam their alliance forum and page with Monkey slogans and kick BB from his own alliance. The leaders revolt, infighting begins and by morning half the alliance have moved over to NW VM G, who I spoke to to arrange a home for them. The was with BB and SWM members who left were always looked after.

      Then an alliance emerged in the North, [A]. MM watched as they grew and spread West towards our friends. In the meantime Gimps, unchallenged in the SE were beginning to harass us. We were forced to let the NW fight for itself against a much stronger alliance while we focused on Gimps, doing joint attacks with FL. But NW VM G had a fantastic leader and tactician! Against all odds they took down [A] in one night. They focussed their efforts on a couple of players, one of them quit the alliance (Locke Lamora). Dsv saw the opportunity, he advised me to message [A]'s members, I asked them what was going on, why it was all falling apart... And offered them a safer home. One came, and persuaded a group to join us. Once in we informed them of the Confed with NW VM G, they were not happy, but they accepted it. Amongst them was DatBoi, who built our main scout army. The NW was secure, [A] defeated and a boost in numbers of decent players.

      With these new members, one of our lone wolves who joined us to see what we are like organised an attack. Rizzie, Mob, Farmville joined a daylight assault alongside and planned by benne and dsv. They wanted to finish off Locke Lamora who had just joined GMC. They requested permission to execute their plan and I have them the go ahead. It seemed risky to me, but they were confident in their plan. And they executed it flawlessly! They chiefed his hammer, zeroed his capital and took numerous croppers and villages between them devestating his account in one blow and dismantling it over the following days until he deleted. GMC were in shock, we know because benne showed me the messages.

      The fun we had with SWM, the tactics against [A] and the daring against Locke became cornerstones of how MM were to play the server. We knew that no matter the odds, we would always fight! Always punch first and never back down.

      The wrong time for things to get tense :D unfortunately, some members of FL and some members of MM kept falling out, I was always having to settle territory disputes and calm people down. We didn't feel trusted, and therefore felt that the NAP was doomed to break. We put together a contingency plan for if that were to happen. Then FL chiefed some villages from NW VM G... This was the final straw for us. We cooled everyone's nerves on the front... While readying our attack squad in the background. dsv had orders to reveal the Confed and change their name to WW (Mirrored Monkeys) the moment we launched and to cover with fakes. We got the hammers ready... Then we talked, do we or don't we want to break this NAP? If we do, there is no going back and it will be a bitter close quarter war until the server end... benne decided for us, he launched his hammers. The rest of us followed. We cancelled the NAP. WW faked. We took the artifacts we wanted that FL had and we hit them in multiple capitals that day, starting a war that would not cease until the server ended. What fun :)

      FL elicited help from SWM who wanted revenge, and we believe Gimps. The defence they produced was far higher than what they could mount by themselves and it killed off a lot of our offence. We went on the defence and started the rebuild while FL merged with Gimps.

      Being outnumbered and outgunned we looked to GMC. There were 3 options. Side with no one, let FLG and MM tear each other apart and have an easy but boring win. Side with FLG and overwhelm us for an equally dull and boring win... Or join us to even out the score to have an interesting battle!

      Trouble picked to side with FL... We punished GMC by boring them to death. WW wanted to attack, we said no, just defend. Focus on FLG. Many GMC members did get bored and delete. This was a tactic that I am sorry I had to use, I don't like the idea of a dull game, but we were having tonnes of fun in the SW and new that if we tried to fight 3 quads at once we would lose.

      The war with FL was hard on us! We lost many players who could not take it and FL kept bouncing back, every Viagra we damaged was rebuilt, every hammer we killed remade and every hammer we launched one by one was destroyed. I drunkenly Kamikazed on Kamikaze. Mano chiefed my hammer. Endless Viagra were chiefed and golded down and during Alphapup's holiday Timo, Llamatron, God Of War and Flower were hit multiple times a night every night for a did two weeks... Their accounts virtually destroyed, lacking in sleep and struggling to stay afloat. But they didn't cave, they fought back hard where they could. Sometimes with just small armies to hit supplies, other times Llama would flick between his Alpha and Beta armies as the other rebuilt to keep up the fight. As a group, positioned right on the front line, surrounded by FL's solid wall of players on one side, and the Gimps allies on the other... They took a hammering, absorbing and killing endless streams of FLGs offence. We supplied them with permanent defence where we could, Kweewks phalanx, Wranks spears and GoWs praets died there in their thousands! But they stood firm and fought hard, never lost their sense of humour about it. Allowing the rest of MM to strengthen and grow while they kept them busy.

      The WWs. The only time we attacked GMC (other than Locke). The first hit went unbelievably well... We took the 5x strength, we destroyed the WW and the GWs and then we took the plan. Mostly Harmless would have sent an even bigger monster than he did... But FL tried to chief it the night before and he was forced to defend with half, saving the village. The attack was still effective and we were back in the lead. Llamatron and Wrank calculated the best order of attacks to maximise damage and this became a precident for every WW hit thereafter. Something we noticed wasn't being done when we were hit.

      We had the back and forth, every time one of us got close, the hammers would land and we would get knocked back again. We took note of this and worked out that we only had enough for 1 more hit, we guessed you had at least two left, so we changed our plan. Instead of an all out attack, we held Si-Tron back and kept building. Our attack did not zero this time, but it bought us time. Enough time in fact to rebuild enough WWKs to zero one last time. We have since found out that this broke a lot of players and many went grey. But at the time we feared a retaliation and we could see that trouble could still get to 100 before the Natars with 2 days to spare! Then Illusion stole the 5x strength from us! Moments before FL were due to land, we watched in horror, believing it to be game over... But our WW held! It was reduced, but alive. We started racing! GMC were still building FAST! We swapped in the diet and packed 2.7 million into the WW waiting for those beasts to appear, we imagined hammers like Wranks. But nothing came... 95...96...97. I organised a final assault to slow the build to prevent GMC overtaking the Natars if we were to get hit. This move was for a Natar win.

      We took 3 plans in one day, we could have taken 4, but we over compensated on one of the plans to ensure victory of at least one of GMCs plans. It doesn't matter... By the time the attacks land, level 100 is being built, we no longer need the plans and we cram the defence up to 3 million!

      Against the server, against the odds and completely unexpected by any of MM... We won at 12:26 on the 1st of June.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Hawk ().

    • dude, the part where u say u warned us all about the time change.. pretty sure that word never reached my ears, i was fuming, everything went tits up. and besides at this point gimps was in south mm on the north, whiever one we attacked we decided our alliegences right.

      also was never my inention to build the ww, we lost out on defender bonuses because of it, if a smaller account take the ww he gis taking the population defender bonus.
      forum.travian.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36992
      probably could have changed the result also, was trying through a few of them, ended up deciding to take it myself.
      Yeah, at start of server there was AA hostile to us, and FEd also hostile, we needed to grow in players so was looking for recruits.

      Was prepared to offensive them, but no use striking if you cant finish the job, and with armies like yours hanging around in the deeper quad we'd take loses on engagement, in the end the crumpled themselves.

      Even took locke lamora in despite him causing problems.. benne took him out with a pretty nice move, destroyed his capital and captured his army, locke quit right after.

      Hmm I think we would have faired better if we involved ourselves to combat more on MM, even still had chances to use our hammers to deeper strike and remained patrolling the borders.. Stemos was never even killed..
      although we did land hammer onto his main offensive, ended up making not too much different

      TBH Wrank's armies made some of the biggest impact.

      IF we had held back on targeting the granaries or not lost the 5x during the first strikes on WW.

      THat said we didn't have that much def, and feeding was tough, 5x was cleaner on first strike to WW.
      And once again, travian ruined my game with the 1 hour infront thing, I was ready to organise this thing, but it already happened before since travian cant do a clock, and im not some kind of phycic mind reader to know this thing unless im told it.

      I was lumbered with the 5x arti, simply because this is the best ww building arti, I did not want to take it, I'd rather using something usefull. But with Gimps at the time looking like a viable WW holders, decided to prevent them from taking it and.. IDK that was the solution to the mess I was left with because travian games cannot produce me timer..
      Should put this some place, what time the artifacts are spawning, since this caused me issues this time.
      The guy who captured hte unique fool deletes.
      2 of the guys I convinced to play def, also deleted.

      Have only 1 strong anvil player playing untill the end.

      Side hammer that we replaced FED leaders 15c with, also deleted.
      Rest of our guys are late starters..
      Lost too many good players over the server to boredom and deletion.
      If not GMC Would have been stronger..

      Problem was I cannot decide who to fight, either the sw GIMPS, or the NORTH, there was a time when I should have just chosen a direciton and started a fight, but I did not know how things would play out, and fighting both alliances on both fronts seemed the only logical option, but also.. Not going to help us win is it.. Not really..

      We prepared for our WWKs, And then wrank's reletless production just out steam'd us.
      Some one should put together a list of the armies comming out of that account, melly too. Non-stop production.
      My armies were designed mostly for 1 thing, quad controll, and then my quad simply rolled over after some politicing.

      None of those other leaders made it to the end, had people delete rather than let me slaughter them.. Sad.
      Perhaps If Fed wasn't such cowards losing without any fight at all GMCs appitite for blood might have been sated and we'd lose less players. But oh well.

      With melly and dom.. They had some good offensive, but we also had good offensives at the early stage also, depsite many of those players not making it to the end. Its just talk but we could outgun fed, was waiting for the consistent offesives to be prepared though, since by wave numbers u are limited in damage u can deal alone, 1 guy was in GMC before, and in GMC again, just 1. And from Uk3, also just 1, not counting Locke.
      Its not as if we have some kind of pro team here, just 1 account heavy raiding and make an alliance.

      Jure told me we lost when we lost the 5x, turns out to be true, much easier to peel the walls without it.

      Hmph, 3 rounds of WWKs wasn't enough, initially I planned to just do 2, but hitting GW GG... pretty pointless, its best to let the ww to the 90s ram and cata it, rinse repeat.
      That means WWKs should come in sets of 2 tbh. And Each set should ahve a tueton! For the teuton ramming capacity is unmatched, also his ability to rebuild quickly..

      travian.kirilloid.ru/build.php#b=40&mb=20&s=1.44&n&lvls=0,94
      if you wwk at this level twice, and a tueton is taking a break after his first ram on the WW.

      1100 hour/ 24 = travian.kirilloid.ru/off_calc.…80&s=1.44&po&art=100&ac=2

      There is ample time for WWR to be re-used...

      WWK need to be stored up for longer though.

      Wheat is main issue in end game, without large quantities of gold troops starve and wood clay and iron is compleltly useless.

      Ran out of golds, and had to NPC for the artifact defence.. Was supprised they didnt try it again, at times I thought they would smash the arti def down since was hardly any there, and then just t-total the WW again.

      We lose everything on our WW in the first hits after they removed the 5x arti, this is essentially what decided the server if you want to take spesific moment for it.. ALthough is lot of other factors stuff we might have changed, in particular as I Said the order of our WWKs, seems we wasted some on the granaries etc, should have saved to try make more hits like the illusion one and flatten the ww... X(

      Welcome to our newest member, Dsv
      :ahoy:
      No-cringe signature.
    • A little late but just to set the record straight from the FL side

      "We got to work clearing out the SW, destroying alliances, clearing our 9x9s and getting ready to set up camp for the cross quad wars. Then hit a snag... A uk4 player is accused of cheating, FL demand that he is kicked and I am being forced into a him or us situation. The sole reason I allowed FL to leave rather than kicking the player... I didn't like being given ultimatums. I am not always right, but I need my alliance to trust me. To allow me to make the decisions, good or bad, I will always listen, and I often change my mind. But ultimatums put my leadership into question. Who else could then manipulate me? So I said goodbye with a heavy heart and an offer of a NAP."

      Medusa you forgot to mention in your summary that the MM player accused was punished for cheating and Medusa refused to kick him but let them carry but then he got caught again and was finally banned...so I guess FL stance was right after all. You also make out that you were in a position of overall control of the merged MM/FL alliance, I thought that FL leadership had equal say on all issues so the decision to keep or kick the banned player was not yours alone to make.

      Also when you broke the NAP with FL at the same time as getting into bed with WW you outnumbered FL around 4:1 so maybe you were hoping to wipe FL out in short time Well that didn't happen and it was only after you initial attack on FL that we started talking to GIMPS, up until then we had been planning to strike at GIMPS in combination with MM.

      And finally, FL were never focused on the WW build, we were only on the server attack other alliances at most we were prepared to help another alliance build the WW by providing some offensive muscle against their enemies. The server player numbers were so bad in the end game and so many of the GIMPS and GMC had left or were inactive that we had no choice but to switch our strategy and get more involved in the WW build, but far too late really to have a real chance of winning (or so we thought). But in the end the game was very close despite our lack of proper focus for most of the server, not sure what that says about the relatives strengths of the other alliances!

      Overall the server was good fun and probably wouldn't have been so close if FL and MM had stuck together so maybe it was for the best for the server but the MM 'betrayal' does still bother some people and makes me wonder if the MM leadership can be fully trusted on any server.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by CrazyJack ().

    • Hi all

      Just a friendly reminder not to name names when making accusations of banned players. For example purposes:

      "Phill is accused of/banned for cheating" is not allowed.

      "A uk4 player is accused of/banned for cheating" is okay as long as it's still in line with the other forum rules.

      Thanks
      Hawk
    • CrazyJack wrote:

      A little late but just to set the record straight from the FL side

      "We got to work clearing out the SW, destroying alliances, clearing our 9x9s and getting ready to set up camp for the cross quad wars. Then hit a snag... A uk4 player is accused of cheating, FL demand that he is kicked and I am being forced into a him or us situation. The sole reason I allowed FL to leave rather than kicking the player... I didn't like being given ultimatums. I am not always right, but I need my alliance to trust me. To allow me to make the decisions, good or bad, I will always listen, and I often change my mind. But ultimatums put my leadership into question. Who else could then manipulate me? So I said goodbye with a heavy heart and an offer of a NAP."

      Medusa you forgot to mention in your summary that the MM player accused was punished for cheating and Medusa refused to kick him but let them carry but then he got caught again and was finally banned...so I guess FL stance was right after all. You also make out that you were in a position of overall control of the merged MM/FL alliance, I thought that FL leadership had equal say on all issues so the decision to keep or kick the banned player was not yours alone to make.

      Also when you broke the NAP with FL at the same time as getting into bed with WW you outnumbered FL around 4:1 so maybe you were hoping to wipe FL out in short time Well that didn't happen and it was only after you initial attack on FL that we started talking to GIMPS, up until then we had been planning to strike at GIMPS in combination with MM.

      And finally, FL were never focused on the WW build, we were only on the server attack other alliances at most we were prepared to help another alliance build the WW by providing some offensive muscle against their enemies. The server player numbers were so bad in the end game and so many of the GIMPS and GMC had left or were inactive that we had no choice but to switch our strategy and get more involved in the WW build, but far too late really to have a real chance of winning (or so we thought). But in the end the game was very close despite our lack of proper focus for most of the server, not sure what that says about the relatives strengths of the other alliances!

      Overall the server was good fun and probably wouldn't have been so close if FL and MM had stuck together so maybe it was for the best for the server but the MM 'betrayal' does still bother some people and makes me wonder if the MM leadership can be fully trusted on any server.
      Ah, I was not aware I missed out the bit that you were right

      I know I acknowledged it somewhere, probably in a message to the alliance or to one of your members.

      For the record, CrazyJack is right. The player was cheating and was eventually banned (because I reported him). But until I had that proof I felt I was being blackmailed. Also it was indeed joint leadership, but when you say "he goes or we go" you are using your allegiance as a bargaining tool to shift the balance of power onto yourselves.

      I was very happy to work with you guys, I really liked, and still do like FL. I think you are an excellent team, well gelled, very good players (hard to beat!) and stay true to your beliefs and values. I would play with you or against you again.

      Regarding being trustworthy... neither us or you knew each other very well at the start of that server, and there was mutual mistrust and tension throughout. We broke the NAP with the aim of wiping you out because we believed that we were only a few tense situations away from you doing the same (and there were enough of those on both sides). It didn't work, your gold sharing system allows you to bounce back far quicker than we anticipated. It felt like shooting at water sometimes :D

      Anyway, we know you now, we know you know us now. We also know that you know we stick together as an alliance until the end no matter what happens.

      So if we go onto a server and form a tense nap... of course we will end up fighting again haha!

      If we go onto a server as a unified alliance with a shared history as friends, because it was fun. Then we would not dream of dropping you a 2nd time. The power we would wield together would be frightening.